Talk:Georg Karo

Georg Karo has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 3, 2023. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Georg Karo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 October 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Jewish-German Georg Karo was accused of being a Nazi spy after fleeing Nazi persecution?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Georg Karo.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 11:09, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that the Jewish-German Georg Karo was accused of being a Nazi spy after fleeing Nazi persecution? Source: Davis, Jack L. (2010). ""That Special Atmosphere Outside of National Boundaries": Three Jewish Directors and the American School of Classical Studies at Athens". Annuario della Scuola Archeologica Italiana di Atene. 87: 119–131, esp. p. 127
- ALT1: ... that the archaeologist Georg Karo initially considered that he "only embarrassed himself" when studying the subject? Source: Ehling, Kay (2019). "Archäeologe und Gentleman: Georg Karo in den Zwanziger Jahren" [Archaeologist and Gentleman: Georg Karo in the Twenties]. Antike Welt (in German). 6: 53–60. JSTOR 26918891., p. 54
- ALT2: ... that the archaeologist Georg Karo won the favour of both German and Greek royalty? Source: Gerber, Albrecht (2010). Deissmann the Philologist. Berlin: De Gruyter. ISBN 978-3-11-022431-3, p. 133-134 (German); Marchand, Suzanne (2008) [1996]. "Kultur and the World War". In Murray, Tim; Evans, Christopher (eds.). Histories of Archaeology: A Reader in the History of Archaeology. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 238–278. ISBN 978-0-19-955008-1, p. 261 (Greek)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mohammed Khalid Roashan

5x expanded by UndercoverClassicist (talk). Self-nominated at 09:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Georg Karo; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: Very interesting hook indeed. I think the original hook is the most interesting. There appears to be no problems with the article, and the hook matches the article. Unfortunately I had a bit of difficulty accessing the source so I'll accept with good faith. Not yet though, as your QPQ isn't complete. —Panamitsu (talk) 04:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks - that one's waiting on the nominator, but I since did Template:Did you know nominations/Tournament of Kings: could we count that one as the QPQ in this case instead? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Driveby comment: incomplete reviews of this sort (a full review has been done but there's haggling over hooks/image licensing/otherwise something keeping the article at DYKN for now) are generally accepted for QPQs. Vaticidalprophet 08:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh whoops. Accepting the first QPQ, you are free to use the second one for another nomination. —Panamitsu (talk) 08:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Georg Karo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kaiser matias (talk · contribs) 07:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Kaiser matias (talk) 07:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

"He was twice director of the German Archaeological Institute at Athens (DAI)..." It may be good to include the years here, to give context to his career.
- Possibly, though his first term is a bit complicated, because he's de facto director under Dörpfeld for quite a while before he actually gets the title. Might be a bit too much for the lead; the full dates and details are all in the body. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough.

"...German Archaeological Institute at Athens (generally known as the "DAI", an abbreviation of its name in German)..." Add the full German name here: "generally know as the "DAI", an abbreviation of its name in German, 'the name would go here').
- Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both Turkey and the Ottoman Empire are used interchangeably, though I would advise against using Turkey or Turkish, as the empire was much more than just Turkey.
- This is true. I've tried to use "Turkey" when we specifically mean the geographical area, and "the Ottoman Empire" for the political unit. This should now be consistent. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a mention to King Georgios of Greece in the article, which I have two comments about: first it should be linked; and why is the Greek version used instead of the more common "George of Greece"? Other Greek monarchs use anglicized versions throughout, so consistency should be maintained.
- Fair enough; done. As George/Georg/Georgios wasn't actually Greek, I don't see much of a problem here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From what I gather, Karo was in a relationship with Helene Wenck, but it is not made clear. It notes that they met in 1922, and later Wenck faced restrictions in 1938 because of her relationship, but it should be made more clear when the relationship started.
- It's not clear from the sources, which are very coy about the exact nature of their relationship in its early stages. One assumes that they were in some kind of relationship in 1930, when Wenck follows him to Athens; similarly, when the two move to Munich, one assumes that they're somehow together, but the separate apartments suggest that it wasn't official or public. The rejection in 1938 was accompanied by a note saying "because she is lying with a Jew!", but the source (Lindenlauf) presents that in quote marks, and stops short of definitively saying that it was true. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. Is there any other way to make the relationship clearer to the reader?

I'm going to add the "because she is lying with a Jew" line; I think that's as close as I dare go to "calling" the start of their romance, as it would certainly be OR to come out and say even something like "met Helene Wenck, with whom he later began a romantic relationship": there's no good evidence to prove that the word later is correct or incorrect. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If that's accurate as per the sources, then I'm happy with it. Just let me know when you're finished, and I'll take a final read over to ensure nothing else needs changing. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd slightly got the wrong end of that stick, but added what is in the source. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me, and happy to pass now. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have not reviewed the specifics of grammar and wording, except where it is difficult to follow along. That said, the article is well-written and very interesting, and with the above addressed it will pass. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: I added one follow up question here, but after that's addressed we should be good. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:40, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Everything looks good now, well done. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Much appreciated, and thanks for your review. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:51, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]