Talk:Georgy Golitsyn

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References in Russian

Somebody did not understand the content of the Russian interviews <<http://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/5755/>> and <<http://zveroboy.narod.ru/test/FalseScience/10032004/source/2-4.htm>>. Running the articles through <<http://babelfish.yahoo.com>> will make it easier to comprehend. Gabriel Kielland (talk) 20:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Once more. The following claim by User:Biophys is not supported by the references. His work on the nuclear winter scenario (not a "theory") was prompted by an article of Crutzen and Birks. The scenario was not further developed but Carl Sagan, but Golitsyn and Sagan were in touch on extraterrestrial meteorology issues.

"He and his colleagues proposed the "nuclear winter" theory [1] [2] [3] that was further developed by Carl Sagan. He reported the theory at the first Meeting of "the Committee of Soviet Scientists in Defence of Peace, Against the Nuclear Threat" in May 1983. Golitsyn was elected a vice-chairman of this Committee". Gabriel Kielland (talk) 21:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can you read Russian?

Source [2] tells: "выдающийся геофизик, директор Института физики атмосферы РАН, академик Георгий Сергеевич Голицын, автор теории «ядерной зимы»."

Literal translation: "... Georgy Golittsyn was author of theory of nuclear winter"

Source [3] tells: "В 1983 году Академия наук СССР проводила семинар по последствиям войны. А у меня тогда уже были работы о пыльных бурях на Марсе, и я стал разрабатывать модель для атмосферы Земли в случае больших объемов дыма и пыли. Выходило, что атмосфера будет сильно прогреваться, а поверхность планеты - остывать. Циркуляция атмосферы, конечно, изменится, испарение с поверхности океанов упадет и т.д. В сентябре 1983 года все эти предсказания были опубликованы в "Вестнике Академии наук"."

It tells, among other things, that his theory was published in Reports of Russian Academy of Science in September 1983, before the article in Science.

Source [1] tells: "В 1982 году мне показали шведский журнал, полностью посвященный последствиям гипотетического ядерного конфликта между СССР и США. В нем была пара статей российских авторов, по-моему, академиков Бочкова и Чазова. Среди последствий ядерного конфликта главным называлось уничтожение озонового слоя. Шла речь и о пожарах, и о дыме, который распространится над планетой... К тому времени мы с сотрудником нашего института Александром Гинзбургом уже разработали модель пыльных бурь, ее можно было применить и к ситуации, возникающей после ядерной катастрофы. Гинзбург вывел простейшие уравнения, которые описывают возникающий эффект."

It explains the history of discovery. Biophys (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for selecting the relevant passages. Source 1 and 3 seems authoritative and is now redundantly referenced in the article. Source 2 is an appropriate source for the statement "Golitsyn is (widely) regarded in Russia as author of the nuclear winter theory". As nuclear winter is a scenario and not a theory I would have preferred a change of word, but the reference clearly uses the word theory. Best regards. Gabriel Kielland (talk) 19:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From his official resume [4]

Весной 1983 г. в СССР был создан Комитет советских учёных за мир, против ядерной угрозы, одним из заместителей председателя которого стал Г.С.Голицын. В мае 1983 г. проходила первая сессия этого комитета. Один из докладов был посвящён климатическим последствиям ядерной войны, с которым выступил Голицын. Из-за большого количества дыма в атмосфере вследствие пожаров были оценены эффекты нагрева атмосферы вследствие поглощения солнечной радиации и похолодания поверхности из-за недостатка радиации; уменьшится испарение и, как следствие, осадки; изменится режим циркуляции и т.д. Подробное изложение этих результатов вместе с описанием работы упомянутого Комитета было опубликовано в сентябрьском номере Вестника АН СССР, на месяц раньше статьи Турко, Туна, Аккермана, Поллака и Сагана, в которой был введён термин “ядерная зима”: журнал Сайенс от 31 октября 1983г.

Biophys (talk) 02:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[5]. Biophys (talk) 02:29, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two slightly different accounts. Firstly www.troica.ru claims correctly that Golitsyn in 1983 published ahead of Turco, Sagan et al. Secondly www.biograph.ru adds to the picture by crediting Crutzen with the initial idea that a nuclear war could result in significant global cooling. No contradiction between them. Gabriel Kielland (talk) 13:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Right, these particular sources claim that. The article by Golitsyn and others was published in September number of "Reports of the Soviet Academy of Sciences". That was one of top journals to publish in the former USSR (something like PNAS here), but I do not think this old journal issue is available online.Biophys (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not so fast! Turco+Birks published on NW in Ambio in 1982. Any advance on 1982? I agree that the source stating "... Georgy Golittsyn was author of theory of nuclear winter" is good for saying that the Russians believe it William M. Connolley (talk) 20:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. Hold on. The present state of the article is fine, and quite in accord with the above. Sorry, I've got too used to disagreement William M. Connolley (talk) 20:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My contributions are made under the direct Georgy Golitsyn's guidance.Anna168421 (talk) 18:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine; please contribute more, and in any scientific articles as well.Biophys (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Simply placing books in Russian is not good. You should provide English translation of the title for every book, unless there is an English edition. Thank you.Biophys (talk) 20:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Who was first?

The following text with both references was removed:

When the "nuclear winter" scenario was first published in 1982, he applied his model to the issue and confirmed the results ^[1]

^[2].

It is clear that Crutzen and Birks published first. Is there any evidence that Golitsyn worked on a nuclear winter scenario without prior knowledge of there work? Gabriel Kielland (talk) 16:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

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[1] Interview (in Russian)

[2] Golitsyn on nuclear winter (in Russian)

[1]

[2]