Talk:Haida language

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Uralic?[edit]

Based on some small research I've done, a lot of words just screamed "Uralic" at me, and since Haida's language family has no name, and the language is spoken on the Queen Charlotte islands, maybe Haida would be Charlottic, and the macro-family would be Uralo-Charlottic?

Here is a Swadesh list I made based on my evidence. (F) means Finnish, (E) means Estonian, (Iž) means Ingrian, and (M) means Hungarian.

Uralic Haida (Charlottic) English
Keel (Iž) Kíl Language
Vene (F) Tluwáay Boat
Mustekala (F) Núugyaa Octopus
Yksi (F) Sgoansiñ One
Kutya (M) X̱a Dog
Olla (F) Láa Be
Käsi (F, E) Stláay Hand
Nainen (F) Jáadaa Woman

I used a few websites and Glosbe's dictionary for the words. -EggSalt (talk) 18:14, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Curious; but unfortunately, Haida is- 'to be' and hltánuu 'feather' (with *p > hl, *r > n) clearly show that it is, rather, an Indo-European language. Perhaps closest related to Germanic, as the common innovation lamdúu 'lamb' suggests? --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 21:19, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
What you have is interesting, however those could be loan-words, and furthermore I've got more words, like Haida awáa" and Finnish äiti. What's more, is that most of my words (With the exclusion of octopus) are basic words that would probably not be loans. You have an interesting point though. Lastly Lamdúu could be a loan word because do the Haida even have sheep? -EggSalt (talk) 08:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Furthermore, Haida should have it's own language family name like Basque is Vasconic and Nivkh is Paleosiberian, so Haida should be Charlottic. -EggSalt (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
"Paleosiberian" is not a family name, it's just a grouping of convenience. "Vasconic" is used when discussing extinct relatives of Basque. --JorisvS (talk) 11:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Jorvis -EggSalt (talk) 10:59, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi EggSalt The Haida Gwaii Islands have not been called by the Queen Charlotte Islands since 2010 Haida language so I don't think Charlottic would be an appropriate name for the language group. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=5604cded-1d6b-4017-9f2e-c38975bc14ab Oola lily (talk) 19:20, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm... then what to call it? Also, any opinion about my work? -EggSalt (talk) 19:15, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Ainu[edit]

What can be said about a possible connection to Ainu language of Hokaido ?

Well, nothing. The languages are not similar as far as anyone has noticed, and no research on possible connections has been done. David Marjanović (talk) 18:01, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Excellence[edit]

Given the rather small scope of topic, this article is amazing rich and detailed and it should be proposed for excellency. I would know how to do this, but please someone consider it.

Phonology updates[edit]

Is there a particular reason the consonant table revamp left out the epiglottals? Also, is the lack of p p' and especially j in Masset an explicit fact? (The first two in Alaskan seem to mostly occur in loanwords or as further developments from labiovelars, but j occurs in much of what seems like inherited vocabulary.)

It also sounds odd to say that Skidegate has [h] as an allophone of /x/, when Haida has /h/ anyway…?

Couldn't figure out a good place to work in a reference, but Lawrence mentions g being "released with pharyngeal friction" (p.22), which apparently implies an affricate. (Also, those wondering about these being pharyngeals or epiglottals ought to note that pharyngeal stops/affricates do not exist.)

Some cleanup on the short vowel contrast neutralization (which is now described twice, once for Skidegate and once for Alaskan) could also be useful. --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 18:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I think the table heading should have been Skidegate rather than Masset. Enrico (2003) describes the Skidegate Haida inventory, which indeed lacks epiglottals. It's fine to add them to the table if it's referring to another dialect and the addition is sourced. I just wanted to provide a citation since none of the info in the article was cited. Enrico doesn't list p p' j in Skidegate. Mo-Al (talk) 01:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Regarding [h], Enrico says that "syllable-final [h] is an allophone of /x/ in Skidegate and of /h/ in Massett"; I'm not sure exactly what that means.Mo-Al (talk) 06:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you by the way for adding citations to the article. Mo-Al (talk) 06:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Bringhurst[edit]

Robert Bringhurst created an orthography for his publications on Haida literature without punctuation or numerals, such as most apostrophes ....

The last phrase is peculiar; perhaps the sentence once read something like Bringhurst's orthography removes various non-letters, such as most apostrophes. I won't change it without knowing more, but I'll ask: how about without punctuation or numerals, and few apostrophes? —Tamfang (talk) 07:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's better. In Haida ‹7› is a letter, so it would be anglo-centric to call it a non-letter. — kwami (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
It's anglocentric to call the consensus of the Latin-based scripts anglocentric! —Tamfang (talk) 18:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Removed unsourced statements[edit]

I've removed the following statements for the time being. If anyone can find sources for them, it would be great to put them back in the article:

  • Alaskan Haida has additional consonants /pʰ pʼ/.[citation needed]
  • A similar situation applies with [t͡sʼ] and [t͡ʃʼ].[citation needed] (regarding allophony of [t͡ʃ] and t͡s)

Mo-Al (talk) 19:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)