Talk:Hortense Mancini

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Untitled[edit]

The French language version of this page has much more information, but I don't read French! Does anyone have any interest in translating some of the material?

I had a look at this, and I've added some information up to that under the heading "Charles II d'Angleterre". May look into rest at a later date.TrentandtheAcrobats 23:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

c.f. the "I cleaned up the grammar, punctuation, and and a number of infelicities of style", just a few things that you've altered the meaning of: this ought to read #2The introduction to Aphra Behn's "The History of the Nun" has been taken as a suggestion that she too had romantic relations with Hortense" rather than "has suggested" because it's been commented on as suggesting that. I might be able to find the reference in December when I have time.

"there was a romantic element in the relationship and the Duc" makes no sense - there was a romantic element in the Duc? TrentandtheAcrobats 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

"It was at this point that Hortense began a lesbian love affair with the 16-year old Sidonie de Courcelles." Um, sorry, why do we need an internal link on "lesbian"? D'you reckon people'll need to look it up?TrentandtheAcrobats (talk) 18:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

"The introduction to Aphra Behn's "The History of the Nun" has been taken as a suggestion that Behn too had romantic relations with Hortense during this same time." Just curious, do we have any evidence or sources saying that Behn had romantic relations with Hortense at this time? I've read suggestions of the connection, just wondering if there is a source as to specific times? TrentandtheAcrobats (talk) 21:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

In addition, I found this: "Goldsmith like Cholakian notes that the Mancini sisters 'published their memoirs for very specific reasons', to defend their reputations. Indeed, Hortense was seeking to lobby 'in absentia at the court and in Paris', and Maries's memoirs 'were also used as part of an official dossier she submitted on her own behalf at the Spanish court in 1677' (Goldsmith, p.101). Cholakian similarly agrees that Hortense's memoirs were 'a quasi-legal brief' and that it was 'in a very real sense a judical memoir' (p. 99)."

The above quote can be found http://fh.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/16/4/474.pdf but this may only work if you have access to journals via a university or something similar. The Goldsmith referred to is Elizabeth C. Goldsmith and the book Publishing Women's Life Stories in France, 1647-1720: From Voice to Print. The Cholakian is Patricia F. Cholakian

I thought this would be useful as a reference to the bit under the title of "After Charles II's death" in the article, so that'd be useful to add, although this can act as a reminder to self if no one else gets round to it.

And, in further addition and at risk of sounding like a rampant feminist, I'm just curious as to whether there was any intellectual women at Hortense's London salon (this is in reference to "BoBo"'s change of "Charles de Saint-Évremond, the great poet and epicurean, was a close friend of hers and brought to her door all the learned of London." to "Charles de Saint-Évremond, the great poet and epicurean, was a close friend of hers and brought to her door all the learned men of London." I realise women would've been rarer in those circles, but it'd be fascinating to find out if Hortense had fellow women doing the same sort of thing with her. TrentandtheAcrobats (talk) 22:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

This is mainly to prevent stuff getting lost under edits and a general note to see if we can get verification of stuff: "Firstly, there was her almost certainly lesbian relationship with Anne Lennard, Lord Chesterfield, Lord Castlemaine (or less likely, Charles's) daughter by Barbara Palmer." has been changed to "Firstly, there was her almost certainly lesbian relationship with the Countess of Sussex, the king's illegitimate daughter by the Duchess of Cleveland.". Does anyone have any sources as to what Anne Lennard's parentage is most likely to be? TrentandtheAcrobats (talk) 22:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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bisexuality and cross-dressing[edit]

What???? "She was dressed as a man; her penchant for cross-dressing is thought to be an outward expression of her bisexuality." Really????? How about, travelling was a dangerous business, and in fact being by yourself and getting anywhere as a woman was a difficult business. Cross-dressing is really an outward expression of women wanting to get things done, and it has little to do with sexuality. Of course, if you're liberated enough to enjoy the intimacy of both sexes, you're probably also liberated enough to ride a horse like a man and not knacker your back with a side-saddle. REALLY. I've found a similar opinion on Christina of Sweden's page. These sentences must be removed - they have too many (wrong) assumptions. Katiehawks (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Use of words[edit]

"hellish" marriage? It was yes, but this term seems a little too opinionated and unprofessional for the Wikipedia. Yellowgirl44x44 (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)