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Talk:Ile Aux Galets Light

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Is this article named right?

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The sources are in conflict. Redirect are in place, I think. But maybe it should have both names in the title. If you just click on each of the external links you will find that they are all over as to the name (or names) they use. However, to expedite your search I've put most of the sources in the following discussion:

  1. Terry Pepper, Seeing The Light, uses "Skillagallee Island Light Station; Ile Aux Gallets Island, Lake Michigan".
  2. Michigan Lighthouse Conservancy uses "Skillagalee Lighthouse", but then follows up with "Skillagalee (Isle Aux Galets) Light.
  3. Lighthouse Digest calls it "Ile Aux Galets (Skillagalee)".
  4. Lighthouse Friends calls it "Skillagalee Island (Ile Aux Galets), MI".
  5. David Wobser of Boatnerd.com calls it "Ile Au Galets Skillagalee Island Lighthouse".
  6. The Detroit News and Lighthouse Central calls it simply "SKILLAGALEE ISLAND LIGHT".
  7. GeoHack (when you click on the coordinates) calls it "Ile Aux Galets".
  8. The National Register of Historic Places Reference #84001389; Name of Listing: SKILLAGALEE LIGHT STATION.
  9. The Michigan map (pdf) of lighthouses calls it "Skillagalee Island (Ile Aux Galets) Light Station".
  10. The National Park Service inventory of historic lights and the U.S. Coast Guard both call it SKILLAGALEE (ILE AUX GALETS) LIGHT.

I have not looked at the books. I would think Skillagalee Island (Ile Aux Galets) Light with redirects if one used either name would be a good way to hand this. Of course, the Michigan lighthouse Navbox would have to be changed, however. What do you think? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Admittedly, I may be more confused than when I started looking at this. Before going further, I assume that it is an "a" after "Skill" right? Some of the spellings in the article (but not on this talk page) follow with an "i" (the first 2 for example). If that is correct, then the next question is does the word have 3 or 4 "L"s.
You've done a fine job with the sources..do we know what the locals call it or do they use either name rather equally? ..and you're right that there are a lot of redirects with possible variant spellings leading to this page. It seems that no matter how one begins to type it, the autosuggestions help guide you here. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
BH, I'm as confused as you are. We should pick on for spelling. The National Register of Historic Places and the Coast Guard would fill the bill of being the "owner". I have not yet found the NHRP document that went through the analysis of the site (which might e a good source). Terry Pepper is meticulous, so his article would merit a reread. This really is like the 'sishwa' example. You get a bunch of English, French, Norwegians, Finns, Native Americans etc. all talking in their own language and dialect, and they will interpret it in light of what their ear is accustomed to hearing. Kind of like "Bombay" and "Mumbai" or "Pekin", "Peking" or "Beijing" Indeed, the sounds of one language don't necessarily translate into another language. So you are going to get bizarre renditions of the sounds (phonetics), I think. I do think that both names of the island should be reflected in the title, but I have no great preference on the spelling. (I think that when I put together the list, I was cutting and pasting from the various sources). Maybe Asher and some of our other editors would like to have some input. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC) Stansplling, etc.[reply]
NRP isn't necessarily the "owner" -- if anyone, it would be the USCG, since it is still an active light station. However, Wikipedia naming conventions discourages hybrid names such as Skillagalee Island (Ile Aux Galets) Light unless that truly is how the place is most commonly known. Better to just pick one simple name and have a forest of redirects and as much explanation of the variant names as needed in the article. FYI, the U.S. authority on place names, the USGS GNIS does not recognize anyplace named "Skillagalee" or "Skilagalee" -- it does recognize "Ile Aux Galets Light" U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Ile Aux Galets Light and "Ile Aux Galets" U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Ile Aux Galets Light though. As GNIS provides a basis by which many maps are labeled, I'd argue that a reasonable choice unless there is some good evidence that some variant of Skillagalee" is more commonly used. older ≠ wiser 12:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From Terry Pepper's site;
"Being very low in elevation, the island is barely visible except from close by, and to exacerbate the problem, the size of its exposed surface fluctuates dramatically with the level of the surrounding water. The island was considered a navigational hazard during the earliest days when the French Voyageurs took the time to name the place 'Ile aux Galets,' which translates as 'Island of Pebbles.'
A is so often the case, the English speaking mariners and settlers found the French name difficult to pronounce, and 'Ile aux Galets' soon unofficially mutated into 'Skillagalee.' The anglicized version took hold, and by the mid 1800's references to the original French name all but disappeared."
If only the last sentence were true, we wouldn't have this problem. Pepper goes on to mention that Congress approved the funds for the light in 1851...it would be very interesting to find out what name is used in those official documents (wonder if someone could find that). The USCG were inheritors of the lighthouses but I'm not sure if they were a naming authority. I do think the NRHP nomination document would be valuable for this consideration as well.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow editors: Once again, we are revisiting the problem that the article is about two things, namely, the island and the light. Most of the lighthouse sources identify both the light and the light. They use some form of "Skillagalee [Island} Light", perhaps with the word Island inserted in it, but they all also use the form "Ile Aux Galets." In passing, I note that Terry Pepper (who by and large tends to look at actual sources, i.e., documents, uses two l's in both Skillagallee and Gallets. There is also the problem of common usage vs. technical usage. Finally, it is an indisputable fqact that both the U.S. Coast Guard and the National Park Service Maritime Heritage program Inventory of historic lights use the following: "SKILLAGALEE (ILE AUX GALETS) LIGHT". That's a fact. That's my interpretation, FWIW. As to the proper conclusion, we have the problem of Wiki naming policy, and the fact that both names are used in tandem. I note that we haven't yet heard from Big Turtle on this question, and he was the initial contributor on this article. So what say you? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

After digging through The National Register of Historic Places in Michigan, I also found this official summary for Skillagalee. Also, Stan are you familiar with this source for NRHPs in Michigan which leads to searches like this? I'm actually looking for the NRHP full inventory text online (or how to order for free) but no luck so far. Cheers, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:01, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would have no problem with changing the name of this article to Skillagalee Island, for two reasons: (a) It is the name most commonly used an a unique identifier for the island on a well-known search engine; and (b) it is the primary name used by the U.S. Coast Guard. It is true that the island was originally named Ile aux Galets, but that name appears to have dropped out of most common use and is now the secondary official, no longer the primary official, name used by the owner. I agree with the Wikipedia convention against "hybrid" names. My thanks to everyone who is taking part in this discussion. Bigturtle (talk) 00:45, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox for Islands?

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I wonder if we should add an Island infobox. See Charity Island for a basic island infobox, or see Granite Island (Michigan) for an article that has both an island and a lighthouse infobox. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

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