Talk:Jack tales

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Appalachian Jack

While many of the Jack tales are based on the original English Jack tales, in Appalachian retellings of the archetypes of other traditions, Jack becomes the protagonist of non-Jack stories also retold by the Grimms. According to Halpert, Jack tale "Old Fire Dragaman" appears to trace back to Beowulf with similarities to a Florida Negro folktale. Appalachia was settled by Scots, Irish, Welsh, German as well as English bringing their oral folk tales as well, and as the tales were re-told they all became Jack tales. Naaman Brown (talk) 14:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Modern interest in the Appalachian Jack tales was triggered after English folklorist Cecil Sharp researched survival of old English folk ballads as an oral tradition in the Appalachians; he was followed by folklorists researching tales passed on as oral traditions. Isobel Gordon Carter published Jack tales in the Journal of American Folk-Lore Mar 1927. (those details cribbed from Chase). English traditions survived in isolated pockets of Appalachia (my great-grandmother pronounced "join" as "jyne" same as it was pronounced in Alexander Pope's day). Naaman Brown (talk) 09:35, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion (Jack (hero) and Jack tales)

While creating {{Jack}}, I noticed quite a bit of content overlap and similarity and felt it might be better to merge these two pages. I am not entirely sure which page should be the merge destination so I will leave that open for debate.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Jack tales was created as a redirect on 23:17, 3 July 2006‎ and as an article 03:51, 3 January 2009‎, while Jack (hero) was created 00:03, 11 February 2009‎.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect Jack (hero) to Jack tales Since the character type is not so heroic sounding, I am not so sure the reader would look at Jack (hero). One page describes him as weak and foolish and the other as lazy or foolish. Thus, hero is not the best association, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Tony, good work. I would suggest even a different name like Jack (folklore) or something like that may be more broad than "tales" which is a specific a type of story. Perhaps Jack as hero might be a subsection of the overall topic. In my opinion Jack is a very interesting trickster like figure who may have been converted to a jingoist figure in the UK. Note how their flag is named "Union Jack" However I don't have any "proof" of my views. I find this folklore type topic very frustrating on wikipedia as often the most interesting a poignant information gets deleted because it is controversial or too hard to source. For example the [trickster] section leaves out a lot of the indigenous spiritual or religious associations which are actually quite important in many countries. Anyway, good work, don't let my cynicism hold you back. Cheers! Rusl (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Appalachian/British connection of folk lore is quite interesting. Another shared British/Appalachian folklore idea is saying "rabbits" on the first of the month, or saying "white rabbits" around a campfire to get the smoke out of your eyes.Rusl (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A more neutral name like Jack (character) would solve this problem.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

support, though I would also support renaming as outlined above. Rusl (talk) 02:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose at least when it comes merging Jack (hero) to Jack tales. I would however support the other way around, that is merging Jack tales to Jack (hero), as it would allow more room for analysis of Jack as a character. The individual analysis of each of the tales should be done in their perspective articles.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I also support merging Jack tales to Jack (hero).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:23, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]