Talk:Jasper

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Gemology and Jewelry / Gemstones  (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Gemology and Jewelry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Gemology and Jewelry articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Gemstones subpage.
 

Requested move[edit]

IMO this article should be moved to Jasper (mineral), and Jasper (name) be moved here instead since that is the original meaning which all the other meanings derive from (including this mineral). /Jebur 19:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Page names should reflect the most common English usage of a word, and in my opinion Jasper as a name certainly doesn't qualify. Presumably you will also want other eponyms to point at their antecedent? Such as sandwich to refer to the Earl of Sandwich and boycott to point at Charles Cunningham Boycott? Sorry, doesn't work for me. Dragons flight 23:22, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Already reversed an undiscussed move. If you check What links here, you'll see that virtually all are to the mineral. Actually, the few that didn't I chenged to link to Jasper (name) or the disambig. page a few days ago. The given name Jasper is not as common outside of the Scandinavian countries and in itself is not that notable. Vsmith 02:40, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm inclined to oppose for the reasons already given. Also, from [1], it appears that etymology of the gemstone may be distinct from the proper name, rather than derivative. olderwiser 15:32, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. violet/riga (t) 21:39, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose - The common use of the word is to refer the the mineral. I found this page by typing jasper into google, and the other links were to the mineral aswell. HighInBC 21:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


Historical[edit]

The information in the historical section only mentions references in Western civilization, and most particularly to Judeo-Christianity. If this is going to be here, references besides the Holy Bible should be used and there should be more information from eastern cultures. Shadowin 18:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ummm huh, how about you track down that information and write it for us? Some one did the best they could with the knowledge they had. I don't seen anything wrong with there "only" being references from the Holy Bible, when you consider that the writing of Exodus and Revelation are centuries apart it seems like a fairly important reference marker in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I came to the page because I was wondering about a reference to "the jasper sea" was in a fiction book I am reading. If the historical section would have been removed then wikipedia would have once again been useless, but instead wikipedia came though for me. I vote to keep the historical section and vote that you stop whining. Thank you who ever put the historical data in the article. Dcllibrarian 04:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Unfounded etymology for 'jasper'[edit]

Wikipedia article states:

"The name means "spotted or speckled stone", and is derived from Greek iaspis, (feminine noun)[3] via a Semitic language (cf. Hebrew yashepheh, Akkadian yashupu), ultimately from Persian yashp."
That truly is a bold statement. I have not seen Wikipedia's assertion validated anywhere other than in the notorious 'Online Etymological Dictionary'. I have not seen this etymology cited in reputable dictionaries and etymological dictionaries.
The Akkadian language was already in serious decline, if not de-facto extinct as a spoken language, having given way to Aramaic, long before the dominance of the Persian empire over the Middle East. The suggestion that Akkadian language adopted words from Persian looks very suspect. A second point render's Wikipedia's proposed etymology virtually impossible.
The Hebrew word 'yashepheh', which stands for one of the stones in the High Priest's breastplate, is used in one of the oldest parts of the Hebrew Bible, i.e. the Book of Exodus, which long predates the Persian era. This word is generally traced by scholars of ancient Hebrew to a root meaning "to polish" or "to be smooth". Presumably, this could have been some ancient Semitic root shared as a cognate by Akkadian. The name could then have entered Greek via a Semitic-speaking culture with which they had contact since time immemorial, e.g. Phoenician. This looks much more probable than what has been cited in this article.
The personal name 'Jasper' has been ascribed to a Persian origin, but not relating to the name for a stone.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Problems with the lead paragraph[edit]

It says in the lead: "Jasper, a form of Chalcedony, is an opaque, impure variety of silica, usually red, yellow, brown or green in color... Jasper is basically chert which owes its red color to iron(III) inclusions."

First of all, is it chalcedony or chert? and secondly, if red jasper owes its red colour to iron inclusions what about the yellow brown and green varities? It says here that "Jasper exhibits various colors, but chiefly brick red to brownish red. It owes its color to admixed hematite, but when it occurs with clay admixed, the color is a yellowish white or gray, or with goethite, a brown or yellow. Often jasper is multi-colored." I would add something in but I don't think that The Encyclopedia of Gems at allthatgifts.com is a particularly reliable source. Richerman (talk) 14:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Jasper most certainly is not a form of chalcedony. Chalcedony is microfibrous quartz, and one of its key identifying traits is its translucency. SEM images reveal its fibrous nature, as well. Jasper is a form of iron-rich chert and as such it is microgranular, composed of microscopic silica sediments. It is opaque, only translucent in very thin sections, and is, in fact, a rock. There are numerous texts that detail the differences between quartz, chalcedony, chert, and jasper, none of which seem to be sited here. The jasper page, as a whole, is a mess. -Jan '11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.230.149 (talk) 02:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Suggested Reference[edit]

There is a good site at World of Jaspers would someone more competent care to add that as a reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.36.88 (talk) 16:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

red jasper found[edit]

Upon recent confirmation of our italian expert we discovered a large reserve of red jasper, we are a company which own and operate granite quarries in Egypt, we found this very hard material which we couldn't cut like marble or granite and when we ask for advise from a geologist he identified it as red jasper. Egyptian market is not familiar with this material so we ask advise from all people to give us more information about presenting this material in most proper way to the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.192.39.227 (talk) 20:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest you should try the links in the article - how about contacting someone from the International Colored Gemstone Association here? If they can't help you they should know someone who can. Richerman (talk) 12:51, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Basanite?[edit]

Basanite and dunite lava bomb

The "Types" section, last paragraph, mentions basanite as a name for a black variety of jasper, referencing mindat.org. Not being a geologist, I looked at the French version of the article and saw the lava bomb image being used, and used it to represent basanite on this article. Is basanite not a variety of jasper? Or is whatever is on the lava bomb not basanite? 71.234.215.133 (talk) 00:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Jasper is a variety of silica with colors due to trace elements. Basanite is a silica deficient igneous rock as illustrated by the image. It appears the term basanite has also been used for a dark jasper, but the image is of the volcanic rock and it is not jasper. Vsmith (talk) 01:45, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. Seems the French wiki article has added to the confusion and should be fixed ... by some wiki editor who reads French. See talk:Basanite for more fun confusion. Cheers, Vsmith (talk) 01:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Je ne parle pas francais bien, nor do I have the keyboard for it. I went looking through the other language articles because there was not an example picture of basanite on mindat.org, although they did mention the bas-/bass- confusion. Maybe CIBJO will get around to fixing that like they did with bixbite/bixbyite. The historical usage of "basanite" for black jasper cannot be fixed, only explained repeatedly – and probably ad nauseam.
In the mean time, I am putting dalmatian jasper in the gallery because it is mentioned in the text. It has a different spotting pattern than orbicular, which is another reason to include it, in my opinion. I do not know if it should be in quotes ("Dalmatian" jasper) or called Spotted jasper or shown at all. I am not married to the image being in the article, if a desire is felt to remove it. There is not a lot of choices on Commons for jasper variety exemplars. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 02:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Jasper v Agate v Onyx[edit]

Is there any clear distinction between these three types of stone? They are all classified by the US Geological Survey as varieties of Chalcedony, but apart from (maybe) differences of color it is not clear to me whether there is any physical or chemical difference between them. Dealers in gems and decorative stones seem to be equally confused, and what looks like the same material (e.g. black banded with white) may be described under all three labels.109.158.131.117 (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Other (unnamed/unlisted) types of jasper[edit]

Hi, there,

WHY can I NOT see ANY reference to the following types of Jasper: Kambaba jasper, Picture Jasper; Mosaic jasper, Burro Creel jasper; Succor Creek Jasper; Cherry Creek jasper, Willow Creek jasper, Picasso jasper; Sea-Sediment/Ocean Jasper; Pilbara jasper, Morrisonite jasper (aka: Morrisonite); Red Net jasper, Red Bird's Eye japser, Cobra jasper. Zebra Japser, Leopaed Skin jasper; Snake-Skin jasper, Frog-Skin jasper, Panther jasper, Imperial Plume jasper, Bumble Bee Japer, Butterfly jasper, Ghost Eye's jasper, Lansdscape japser, Mexican Laguna jasper, Dalmation jasper, Imperial jasper, Peanut Wood jasper, Rosette japser, Plychrome/Desert jasper, Porcelain jasper, Noreena jasper, Conquina jasper, Sonora jasper, Mexican Bird's Eye jasper, Dinosaur Bone jasper. Starburst jasper, Sunflower jasper, Chrysanthemum jasper, Lemon jasper, Durango jasper, Owyhee jasper, Chohua jasper, Lilly Pond Jasper, Galaxy jasper, Leaf jasper/Silver Leaf jasper, Bruno jasper, Polka Dot jasper, Chinese Painting jasper, Heena jasper, Coffee Bean jasper, Pinolith jasper, Bruneau ("Bruno") jasper, Wava jasper..., etc.., etc..., WHY??? Is this considered to be "too of a thorough" coverage of this quartz/mineral type to list/include...??? Sorry, but, current Wikepedia's entry for Jasper's kinds (various names) appears to be a pretty FAR CRY from where itis supposed to be...! See some part-here: http://www.minerals.net/gemstone/jasper_gemstone.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by AK63 (talkcontribs) 07:40, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Most of the jasper variety names are commercial/rock shop names - many simply promoting specific localities. The advertisement heavy minerals.net website rather fails WP:reliable sources. Vsmith (talk) 13:54, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Please don't keep modifying your post to include more commercial names. If you feel any of the above names are useful for the article, then provide WP:reliable sources to support their inclusion. (Note - I'm hatting the following banter as irrelevant to article improvement; take it to user talk.) Vsmith (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

---

Nothing relevant to article improvement here
And PLEASE do not SHOUT on TALK PAGES. It is VERY DISRESPECTFUL to OTHER EDITORS as it suggests they are SOMEWHAT STUPID. Also it makes your posts DIFFICULT TO READ - see WP:SHOUT. Richerman (talk) 08:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
== "Shouting" on Pages ==

I was told, have just noticed. that using capitals is tantamount to "shouting"-don't know who came with this RIDICULOUS idea but it has CERTAINLY NOT been my intention/purpose (am NOT a good ROBOTIC "follower" of STEREOTYPICAL MONOTONIC behavior which does not require a lot of thinking or originality...-even when it comes to "social conventions" or, "societal norms"(especially one which makes no sense &/or does not apply to another INDIVIDUAL-after all, we are social creatures but, very DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS one from the other, after all)! If I want to EMPHASIZE a word for its importance to me, it sure appears that there is NO OTHER way to do so here, on Wikepedia, besides CAPITALIZING (please CORRECT me f I am wrong!)...And, if people take things "personally" (feeling I "shout" at them or "offend" them with my CAPITALS-oh well...,-HOW they CHOOSE to react to a WRITTEN word or any other thing elsewhere in their world is BEYOND MY responsibility/role/control...!!!) :)

Thank you, — Preceding unsigned comment added by AK63 (talkcontribs) 06:32, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

There are actually good reasons for not using capitals. First of all it makes the text difficult to read (see:All caps#Readability) and secondly it makes you come across as aggressive, patronising and bombastic. [2] . Of course, if you don't agree you can carry on using capitals as much as you like, in the same way as you can ignore any other social convention, but it will irritate a lot of people and you are less likely to be taken seriously or to have your concerns addressed. And yes, there are other ways of emphasizing text: see [3] Richerman (talk) 09:51, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I believe your link regarding readability refers to all caps, not intermittently used capitals for emphasis. It seems possible that intermittent capitals improve readability by helping pick out the most important words. Siuenti (talk) 11:37, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
So do you think that "WHY can I NOT see ANY reference to the following types of Jasper...WHY???" is easier to read than "Why can I not see any reference to the following types of Jasper...?" The capitalisation just makes what is a rather aggressive and rude question to begin with, seem even more rude and aggressive. Richerman (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jasper/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Is Jasper bioggenic like chert or can it have other origins? respond to agate@info.bw --168.167.198.239 20:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC) Thanks!

Last edited at 20:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 19:36, 29 April 2016 (UTC)