Talk:John Frederick Lewis

Moved from article

This is not the correct way to list sources in articlespace. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Sources

• See Sources.

To infobox or not to infobox?

@Johnbod: Apologies about the infobox. Based on your very cryptic edit summary, I thought that you objected to the use of two already linked items within the box. However, I now realise that you objected to the presence of any infobox at all! A quick glance at the article's edit history suggests that you actually don't like anyone adding new content of any sort to the article. Obviously, infoboxes have many advantages, of which I am sure you are well aware. Do I care that you don't like them? No, not really. Have it your way, the article about Lewis can be one of the rare examples that lack an infobox. I'll be sure to keep away from this article in the future. BronHiggs (talk) 04:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

You will find many art articles don't have infoboxes, and if you look around, plenty of discussions setting out why these are often not a good idea. So you might want to avoid all art articles. Inaccuracy is just one reason - is Orientalist painting a "movement"? Is Lewis best described as "Painter and print-maker"? No, of course not to both. I have no objection at all to people improving this or other articles. Johnbod (talk) 11:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

If you don't like the data in the infobox, of course you can change it. Using your logic, we should probably do away with anything that has potential for inaccuracies. There is much inaccuracy in too many articles, but should we do away with articles altogether just because some editors make factual errors?

While you may choose not to consider Orientalist art as a distinct movement there are plenty of serious art historians and curators that would disagree with you. See, in particular, Roger Benjamin, Orientalist Aesthetics: Art, Colonialism, and French North Africa, 1880-1930, 2003 - which documents the rise of Orientalist painting as a distinct movement (in particular pp 57-78 on the Society of French Orientalist Painters which changed the consciousness of Orientalist artists by giving them a sense of "belonging to a communal movement" p.57).

Here are just a few quotations from books and articles that refer to Orientalist painting as a movement

Orientalism, the European art movement that flourished in the nineteenth century... Dr. Paulette Dellois, "Reframing the Gaze: European Orientalist Art in the Eyes of the Turkish Women Artists," in The Proceedings of the “European Integration: Between Tradition and Modernity, Congress, 3, Tîrgu-Mureş, 2009, pp 619-631, ISSN:1844-2048

“It’s tricky to put Orientalist paintings up in a museum in 2015,” says Mel Buchanan, a curator at the New Orleans Museum of Art, which recently reinstalled a wide range of Western depictions of both the Near and Far East from its permanent collection. “Orientalism: Taking and Making” includes a few key paintings by French painter and sculptor Jean-Léon Gérôme (1824-1904), the leading luminary of the [Orientalist] movement at its peak. Source: J.S. Marcus," "Critics called the movement patronizing and repressive, but it is having something of a resurgence." The Wall Street Journal, April 17, 2015 and reproduced in full at NOMA website, https://noma.org/orientalist-art-makes-a-surprising-comeback

The nineteenth century can rightly be called the orientalist era in the arts, as works across the spectrum of literature and painting drew on the myth of the Orient that was being produced by the functionaries of colonialism and the scholars of philology. While French painters such as Eugène Delacroix (1798–1863) and Jean-Léon Gérôme (1824–1904) are widely regarded as the preeminent orientalists in the visual arts, the movement was widespread and included Frederick Arthur Bridgman (American, 1847–1928), Frederick Goodall (British, 1822–1904), Louis-Joseph Anthonissen (Belgian, 1849–1913), Ludwig Deutsch (German, 1855–1935), and Leopold Carl Müller (Austrian, 1834–1892). Orientalist literary artists include Rudyard Kipling (1865–1936), Edgar Allan Poe (1809–1849), Joseph Conrad (1857–1924), and Arthur Rimbaud (1854–1891), to list only a very few. Encyclopedia.com https://www.encyclopedia.com/literature-and-arts/art-and-architecture/art-general/orientalism

"The selected artworks illustrate the history and evolution of the Orientalist art movement from the 16th to 21st centuries." Kenan, "Orientalist Museum launches “Journey into the World of the Ottomans” [Exhibition], Islamic Art Magazine, 2 November, 2010, http://islamicartsmagazine.com/magazine/view/orientalist_museum_launches_journey_into_the_world_of_the_ottomans/

“The darling of the Orientalist movement and lion of international artistic circles, Jean-Leon Gerome was, of the most famous painters in the world.” Lynne Thornton, The Orientalists, ACR Edition Internationale, Paris, 1983, p 112

BronHiggs (talk) 19:50, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

I'll just say that Benjamin's book "which documents the rise of Orientalist painting as a distinct movement" (you say) only covers a period after Lewis' death. If there was an Orientalist movement, Lewis was not part of it. Johnbod (talk) 23:19, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

I must admit to a certain curiosity about how you would wriggle out of that one. BronHiggs (talk) 01:51, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

You probably don't realize I wrote (nearly all of) Orientalism#Orientalist_art. Orientalist painting is certainly a genre, but really no more. Johnbod (talk) 02:04, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Your work at Orientalism#Orientalist_art is impressive. Still, I think that we have some responsibility to consider more recent scholarship on such issues- and if some art historians and curators are calling it a movement rather than just a genre, then we need to consider that point of view. Let's just leave it at that. BronHiggs (talk) 07:19, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

No we don't, especially when they are mainly talking about Continental types after Lewis's death. Tromans, Nicholas, and others, The Lure of the East, British Orientalist Painting, 2008, Tate Publishing, ISBN 978-1-85437-733-3 is recent enough. Johnbod (talk) 12:41, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Infobox

Here's the infobox that cannot be placed on the article's main page, just in case anyone is interested:

John Frederick Lewis
John Frederick Lewis, photograph, late 1860s
Born	14 July 1805 London, England
Died	15 August 1876 Walton-on-Thames, England
Nationality	English
Education	Workshop of Sir Thomas Lawrence
Known for	Painter and print-maker
Movement	Orientalist

BronHiggs (talk) 04:41, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

I’m interested! Abdullah Al Manjur (talk) 10:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Wait I’m not interested. Abdullah Al Manjur (talk) 10:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)