Talk:Karin Schäfer

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Untitled[edit]

Hi, it would be nice if someone would kind-of proofread the article. Petrovsky1 and me did our best, but we're both native German speakers, so... ;)) --WeHaWoe (talk) 10:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Tweaked it up a bit. References are still needed for much of the content.LeadSongDog (talk) 20:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Two minor bugs (well, one not ;): dietheater [sic!] is a name in one word, and PannOpticum is the name of the festival, not a production. On references, I was somewhat reluctant, as most online sources just quote her vita and moreover are in German only. I'll think about that, though. Please pass by again and check whether I once more mis-trated the sentence on PannOpticum. ;) --WeHaWoe (talk) 06:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

@Petrovsky1:[edit]

Im not aware whether "1998, she co-produced Peter and the Wolf with Per Poc in Barcelona" does put it right -- German text just says that Per Poc is from B, but does not explicitely exclude it might have been done or shown in B. I suppose you have more reliable data? --WeHaWoe (talk) 06:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sourcing[edit]

Much of the material appears to be simply translated from other de:, but sourcing is missing for the various assertions made. This seems to be more of an issue on en: for some reason. We expect any assertion that isn't common knowledge to be attributable to a reliable source. Before someone goes through the article and throws in lots of {{cn}} tags, it would be helpful to simply get on with citing the sources that have been used. See WP:CITE, WP:RS and WP:V for the policies. LeadSongDog (talk) 02:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

  • In case you mean "translated from deWP" or from other de wiki projects, ist's not, as there istn'n any article there, up to now, the artist not being focused at all on German language.
  • For quoting, I used following:
  1. Burgenländische Landesregierung, Künstlerdatenbank (Burgenland Government culture database, in German, on her biography.
  2. On Harry V. Tozer's contribution to Spanish Puppetry, I quoted JSTOR, "Historical Notes on... "
  3. Data available online from Cairo International Festival for Experimental Theatre unfortunately just go back to 2000. I believe artist's biography, that she was there in 1993 (see below).
  4. A more detailed biography is given by http://www.theaterspielplan.at/index.php?pagePos=52&id=25368 (German)
  5. Last not least, same data can be found on the artist's homepage, http://www.figurentheater.at/english/start.html . As usual, its English (foreign language) version is a bit shorter than the German one.
  • I have to admit that to me, it would seem more helpful to work on "lots of {{cn}} tags" than to have to guess on what points there might citations still "be needed" by others, as any line of the translation I gave could be attributed to at least one of those sources. I have also contacted the artist whether she might provide sources which I do not quote yet, but have no answer, up to now. --WeHaWoe (talk) 07:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
To make one thing clear: I extremely dislike adding lots of weblinks, AND MOREOVER in languages other than English, which I recently did to the article.
So, it please would be helpful to be told how to manage such problem: The artist is internationally renwoned -- no question about relevance. Most written stuff on her is in languages other than English, however, and just a few press notices are collected by either her or her manager. Moreover, there is not very much on puppetry tagged by e.g. Google at all. Just have a look at other puppeteer's enWP articles. [I have to note here, that she is not an actual "puppeteer" for quite a while, but something very special.) How to deal with that? TX. --WeHaWoe (talk) 10:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
If you don't mind, then' I'll go through and add cn tags. The general idea is that a reader should be able to know what source document is being reflected in an encyclopedic statement.LeadSongDog (talk) 20:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I understand and support the "general idea" which however, for unknown reason seems to be applied in a grossly exaggerated way, in this special case (compared to other enWP biographies of living people). I hope I'll be allowed to quote the artist for giving her date and place of birth, and her address (in addition to her press release) for the place where she lives??? --WeHaWoe (talk) 04:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Frankly spoken, THIS imo ridiculizes yourself more than me. --WeHaWoe (talk) 05:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, you did ask for it ;/) Really, it wasn't intended to ridicule anyone — you've obviously worked hard to get the article this far. It was simply intended to identify the places in the text that deserve citations. The statements came from some source, so we should be able to tell the reader where to seek verification. It's not expected that every cn tag will be instantly converted to a citation, but they should normally remain until the statement can be attributed. Over time, various collaborators will usually uncover a usable source. I don't think any WP:BLP articles reach WP:FA quality, although some, such as Stephen_Colbert have reached WP:GA status. See the category list. LeadSongDog (talk) 21:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
No question that I asked, but expected a reasonable quantity of requests, and felt your response more than just "somewhat" overdone. Neither in the quoted Stephen_Colbert nor in other biographies I remember I find extra-references for, say, day of birth,{{cn}} place of birth,{{cn}} place of living.{{cn}} But it's OK now, I think we are pretty close to a reasonable article, at least as soon as I get the still missing references (which, for myself, seems impossible to manage without the artist's help). I still might ask the Cannes people by mail, whether they'd give any official information on 1994 prizes, but that's it then. Moreover, at this time of the year, all those organizers and performers are pretty busy.
I do not extremly care about having an article "featured", though. I'm aware of such procedure on deWP and I am not interested in answering long arguments, mostly brought in by people who actually are not interested in the subject of the article, but in discussions about featuring "per se". ::::::Anyways, my edits on your masses of "cn's" helped a lot to prepare the German version, which I did yesterday, I therefore have to be grateful. cu, --WeHaWoe (talk) 08:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
It is looking a lot better. I don't mean to suggest that every article should go through the FA process, just that it's instructive to look at the best similar articles when deciding what choices to make. I couldn't find her date of birth in any of the references, particularly not the one cited. That's why I tagged it. Many people choose not to give out their true birthday. That's a reasonable privacy issue these days. But if we can't verify it, we shouldn't put a speculative one up. Cheers, LeadSongDog (talk) 14:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
TX, your last edit is fine with me. So we (well, me, you&the rest of the world ;) just have to wait for "final details" ;))) --WeHaWoe (talk) 16:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)