Talk:Khana Ratsadon

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Requested move

Khana Rat → Khana Ratsadon —(Discuss)— in Thai "คณะราษฎร" is pronounced Kha-na Rat-sa-don —58.136.73.86 03:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The correct name is "Khana Ratsadorn" (see entry in Thai Wikipedia) th:คณะราษฎร

How did they achieve a bloodless coup?

I feel the article could be improved by describing how they were able to carry out their coup in a bloodless manner. tildetildetildetilde —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.77.12 (talk) 11:30, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The 2020 group

I was requested to provide a reference on the 2020 group following a revert to my edit. The following link contains the arrest list of the current leaders, and the word คณะราษฎร 2563 are clearly printed. The new คณะราษฎร is decentralized in nature and doesn't seem to have an official website.

https://www.naewna.com/politic/525179

I believe (sorry, I don't have knowledge to run family trees) the 22 arrestees were not motivated by their ancestral relationships of the original คณะราษฎร members. Only the group name is adopted.

The following links go to tags on news websites that commonly use คณะราษฎร 2563 to refer to them:

https://www.thairath.co.th/tags/%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%93%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%8E%E0%B8%A3%202563

https://www.prachachat.net/tag/คณะราษฎร-2563

https://www.thansettakij.com/search?search=+%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%93%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%8E%E0%B8%A3+2563

One of the leadership did say คณะราษฎร to identify themselves. Please see the following article:

https://news.thaipbs.or.th/content/297388

I cannot obtain print newspapers because I do not live in Thailand at the moment, but I might attempt to source some.

Even its funding is decentralized. Multiple payee accounts go to different people. Let me know if this would be a proper way to say that คณะราษฎร 2563 is decentralized. ~ LunaticNeko ~ (talk) 06:13, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The battle over the People's Party's legacy needed more in-depth discussion, which I have written up a bit and cut-and-pasted more from the article on the 1932 revolution. This should provide more context, since the protest group's use of the name is barely significant here. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 October 2020

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. BD2412 T 03:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Khana Ratsadon → People's Party (Thailand) – Per WP:USEENGLISH. (And maybe WP:COMMONNAME? It's rather hard to tell, since the duplication of names makes an ngrams comparison impossible.) The article was first created at People's Party (Thailand), with a parallel version later created at Khana Ratsadon and the original article redirected here. Paul_012 (talk) 19:53, 16 October 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:02, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: Going through the top Google Books results for variations on relevant keywords, including Thailand/Siam, history, 1932, etc., I managed to identify the following examples:

These works use "People's Party" exclusively, and make no mention of "Khana Ratsadon":
- The Significance of the Coup D'etat of 1932 in Thailand
- Kings, Country and Constitutions: Thailand's Political Development 1932-2000
- Thailand And The Fall Of Singapore: A Frustrated Asian Revolution
- Thailand: History, Politics and the Rule of Law
- The Constitutional System of Thailand: A Contextual Analysis
- The Oxford History of Historical Writing
- Revolution Interrupted: Farmers, Students, Law, and Violence in Northern Thailand
- The Political Development of Modern Thailand
- Thailand's Secret War: OSS, SOE and the Free Thai Underground during World War II
- In Plain Sight: Impunity and Human Rights in Thailand
These works mention "Khana Ratsadon" once upon introduction, then proceed to use "People's Party" throughout:
- Thailand's Durable Premier: Phibun Through Three Decades, 1932-1957
- A History of Thailand by Chris Baker & Pasuk Phongpaichit
These works primarily use "Khana Ratsadon" or some variation thereof:
- Politics and Constitutions in Southeast Asia ("Khana Ratsadon")
- Siam Becomes Thailand: A Story of Intrigue ("Khana Ratsadorn")
- The History of Thailand by Patit Paban Mishra ("Khana Rasdr")

I believe these examples show that "People's Party" is indeed the most commonly used term in English-language book sources. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:05, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. “Khana Ratsadon” is English. It is used in the references and in lots of other sources, in English. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:03, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not quite convinced. See the comment appended above. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:05, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I’m convinced that WP:USEENGLISH does not apply, because it is English. Your many references should that both terms are acceptable. It is true that there is an older history behind the redirect. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:09, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Perhaps I didn't frame the original argument well enough. People's Party is preferable not because it's used in English-language sources while Khana Ratsadon isn't, but because it's used much more commonly by the majority of reliable sources. Yes, it requires parenthetical disambiguation, but I think the commonness is significant enough to outweigh preference for WP:NATURALDIS. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:53, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support appears to be the common name (t · c) buidhe 02:58, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The examples of how the party is referenced in literature appended above to the initial request suggest that the move is supported as the WP:COMMONNAME. I would recommend this get carried out by an admin as a {{history merge}} if closer determines this is the consensus. -2pou (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Article title (2024)

Since the newly launched Phak Prachachon is calling itself People's Party in English, the article title People's Party (Thailand), which was arrived at in the above discussion, is now ambiguous. User:JMKTIN recently unilaterally renamed the page to People's Party (Thailand, 1927) and converted People's Party (Thailand) to a disambiguation page / set index. But the title is not good, as nobody knows the year the party was founded. I suggest renaming the article back to Khana Ratsadon, given the new concerns. Pinging Buidhe and 2pou, the two people who supported the previous move. What do you think? If there's agreement then the page can probably be speedily moved without needing to go through a full week-long move request discussion. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:40, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no opinion (t · c) buidhe 13:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thailand has had parties named 'People's Party' multiple times, and per the Requested move 16 October 2020, the name was changed from Khana Ratsadon → People's Party (Thailand). For that reason, I don't want to revert it and rename it to People's Party (Thailand, 1927). However, if there's an agreement to rename it back to Khana Ratsadon, I strongly support it because it is the common name, and many Thai people don't know that 'Khana Ratsadon' translates to 'People's Party'. --JMKTIN (talk) 11:18, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If there are multiple "people's parties" in Thailand, it's hard to see how the Thai name would work as disambiguation. (t · c) buidhe 01:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"People's Party" is now the English name given to two notable parties with entirely different, distinct Thai names. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The existence of multiple parties by the "People's Party" name is not something I was aware of in the 2020 RM. I would say we can move this back to where it was given the current ambiguity, assuming that the others do not use "Khana Ratsadon" as well. Sorry for such a delayed response, @Paul 012. -2pou (talk) 23:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think there's consensus to move the page back to Khana Ratsadon. I'll request admin assistance. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that there is plenty of Engllish-source usage: Ngram

Google Books – wbm1058 (talk) 17:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]