Talk:Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Featured article Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Video games (Rated FA-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Featured article FA  This article has been rated as FA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Nintendo task force.
 
WikiProject Square Enix (Rated FA-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Square Enix, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Square Enix-related merchandise and video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Featured article FA  This article has been rated as FA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Disney (Rated FA-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disney, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of The Walt Disney Company and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Featured article FA  This article has been rated as FA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
e·h·w·Stock post message.svg To-do:
  • Replace watermarked images with non-watermarked images.
Priority 1 (top)

Article promoted![edit]

The bot hasn't updated it yet, but Raul has promoted CoM to FA status! Great job, everyone (I'm looking at you, Guyinblack25). Axem Titanium 01:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Good work, everybody. ' 04:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Wording in the lead paragraph[edit]

Surely we can come to a consensus about this. No sense breaking WP:3RR over something like a single word. To be honest, in my opinion, I think either one will suffice. But I can see pluses to either word. Both are applicable to the content. "Installment" sounds more encyclopedic/intellectual and "game" sound more generic/layman for general audiences. So what does everyone else think? (Guyinblack25 talk 20:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Nevermind, Kariteh, seems to have come up with a good solution. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Swearing[edit]

Can we try to create a foundation where this line "the first game in the Kingdom Hearts series to use swearing" is notable? Aside from "hell" and "bitch", can you provide in-game citation as evidence, and more importantly, statements from game reviewers about such an issue? Thanks. — Blue 22:50, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I've checked the game script and there's no instances of "bitch", and "hell" only occurred once as a figure of speech. So, I don't think this is notable, I'm not sure if any game reviewer said anything about it, but I'm sure it's just a minor issue. If there's a source, please discuss it first here. Thanks. — Blue 23:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Dude, chill. This isn't the first video game series to use words that would seem like swearing. No one expected this in a disney game with Goofy and Donald, sure, but that's no reason to go all crazy over one word. It hasn't effected anything, so what's the point of mentioning?
Btw, in the Japenese script of the remake(as if there were any other script), when (spoiler warning) At the scene when Vexen is being "silenced" at the manor gates in Twilight Town, Axel snaps his fingers and makes Vexen explode. When he is gone, Sora, freaked out beyond reason turns to Axel and screams, "What the HELL is wrong with you people?!" to which Axel replies something like, "That's what I'm wondering, too..." Just so ya' knew which you probably already did...
ThegreatWakkorati (talk) 09:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
True, sir. I was only replying to this diff made by another user. The English version carry no swear words, I checked the script. The Japanese remake does (and so did the original) but then again we're referring to the English version. — Blue 13:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
The lone use of "hell" is where Axel is alone with Namine in the Organization's little room. He releases her, then tells everyone to "Give me a hell of a show!" That's the only instance of any sort of swearing. (BTW, I doubt the Japanese version has any real swearing--there are very few instances in Japanese where single words are explicit; generally someone is simply speaking in an excessively rough or rude tone and it gets translated as swearing.)—Loveはドコ? (talkcontribs) 14:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

And also, wasnt you reading their discussion? User ThegreatWakkorati gave another example of a curse word in the game. But this is all most likely just fan subbed incorrectly by fans of the game. Not the game creator that had made the script.Grimmjow E6 (talk) 22:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Swearing =/= cussing/foul language. Just to get that in the clear. "Swearing" is a severe promise made in the name of something equally severe (typically God or something considered holy and/or absolute). T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 19:21, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The Other Motive[edit]

Should we bring up The mysterious Room of Awakening mentioned in Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix+? In that game it mentions (in a new scene) that the Organization had another motive for being at Castle Oblivion that involved the Room of Awakening. I believe that this is signifigant enough to at least mention it somewhere on this page. Twilit awakening (talk) 02:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That's better for the Organization XIII and Universe of Kingdom Hearts pages (Castle Oblivion section); the Room of Awakening has little in particular to do with this game.—Loveはドコ? (talkcontribs) 03:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Yah I guess thats true.Twilit awakening (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:VG External Links check[edit]

This Featured Article has four dead external links, which can be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thanks! --haha169 (talk) 23:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Links look good although the accessdates could use updating, the tool should help with that. — Dispenser 00:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Colon Use[edit]

Despite how much you little Wikians love using colons and normal caps, I will not budge on the former. In the NA version's instruction booklet, page 25, the title is rendered as "KINGDOM HEARTS CHAIN OF MEMORIES" in plain text (amusingly, it doesn't make use of italics, though none of the booklet seems to do so upon scanning through it). I also know that in several official places (namely, Square Enix/SQUARE ENIX sites), the title is rendered without the colon (on that note, I would wager that you folks have capitalized "coded", but that's for a different discussion page).

I'm going to remove the colon from every instance of "Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories" that is not from a source that includes the colon (such as video game review/info sites, which tend to add it despite). T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Aside from the condescending tone of your post—if I misinterpret this I apologize—such a post should allow for time to discuss the matter before boldly moving the page. Do you have the links to the official SE sites you are citing as I would like to discuss this without causing a possible edit war. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC))
Well, with a response like that, how can I act counter-elitist? Alright, civility time is GO! Prepare for link list:
  • http://www.square-enix.co.jp/kingdom/ -- The official portal page for Japan's KINGDOM HEARTS releases. Notice that there are alterations in capitalization (though, as I've stated, I'm willing to let that matter be in relation to ALL-CAPS), as well as no use of colons. On the Birth by Sleep and coded holder pages, the titles still have no colon in plaintext.
  • http://www.square-enix.co.jp/games/gba/khcom/ -- The page's title tag reads without the colon. The second-to-last button (or whatever they'd be called) also shows the title in-page as a continuous strand.
  • http://www.square-enix.co.jp/kingdom2fm/ -- I bring this up for the first "card" in the Re:CoM section, which again demonstrates the particulars of Square[ Enix]'s naming structure. I might also argue that since Re:CoM doesn't feature a colon after its KH section, COM oughtn't have one either. Interestingly (and this is part of the few exceptions), the title tag uses normal CAPS for the whole packgage's name (whereas only "Final Mix" and "Re:Chain of Memories" technically utilize this visual sensibility).
  • http://www.square-enix.com/na/game/gba/ -- While the section/box/whatever's labelled in the fashion most of the Internet uses, the text within that area uses the prevalient syntax.
  • http://na.square-enix.com/games/kingdomhearts/ -- Unlike the previous page, this portal site is consistent in a non-colon'd presentation.
  • http://www.square-enix.com/eu/en/title/kh/ -- The English European portal site seems to be a bit more erratic in how the titled are rendered (the front page uses normal caps, despite the use of "FINAL FANTASY" just above it). Interestingly enough, Sword of Mana and Final Fantasy I&II: Dawn of Souls are given a bit more Japanese-like on this site.
  • Then, of course, there's the Instruction Booklet (possibly ALL-CAPS, too, but it's on the cover, so eh).
To act a bit (more?) juvenile, I'll point at Final Fantasy VII Advent Children and say "See? They don't have one!" Really, a colon does make more sense, but overall, it's not what's intended, and the space difference that justifies a normal CAPS approach for titles doesn't work for or against colon use. T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 00:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... You bring up an interesting point. Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks), all caps is not really an issue. The article name should be in a common format that will allow for ease of searching. If need be we can add (marketed as KINGDOM HEARTS) or something like that.

The real issue is the colon, which Square Enix does not seem to use the colon consistently.

I dug up the press releases to see how they refer to the game to the media and found the same inconsistencies.

3/10 with a colon, 5/10 without, and 1/10 with and without. To be honest, I'm a little baffled by this. But their inconsistency makes me think we should defer to the gaming press. I haven't done a count, but I remember seeing "Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories" a lot. I'll do a check of the major gaming networks tomorrow morning. Given the weird circumstances of the official usage, I may post this at WT:VG to get some more feedback. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 talk 05:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

BAH on the gaming press. I can guaran-damn-tee you every place you scrouge up will render it with the colon (just as those same places capitalize the "with" in "The World Ends with You", despite the consistent usage of a lowercase (maybe one use of upper... maybe). What gets me about Wikipedia is that despite it being a definitive source of knowledge here on the 'tubes, piddly-in-regards-to-indexing matters are enforced simply to coincide with everything else. This colon matter, for instance, is a norm-vs-copyright/trademark/whatever-the-hell-the-company-goes-with. Same with "Weird Al"'s song titles; with the exception of "eBay", every word in the titles of his songs are capitalized, yet 'normal' CAPS (with "normal" being in question reguarding longer conjunctions) is enforced because, well, that's how the site figures it oughta look. No matter how prominently and consistently (at least in the places that concretely matter, in SE's case *looks at Character section of FFVIIAC site*) a syntax is used, accuracy is forfeitted for homogeniety here. T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 06:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
While I understand your frustration with the numerous policies and guidelines, they are there for a reason. And since we are guests here, we should abide by Wikipedia's rules.
However, some rules leave room for interpretation, like Wikipedia:Naming conventions. It suggests that the most commonly used title should be used as the article name. This and the use of normal case is meant to increase the ease of which readers can find articles. I know I wouldn't have thought to capitalize the titles of Weird Al's songs, just like I'm sure the others would not capitalize Kingdom Hearts. So it's not that accuracy is ignored, but Wikipedia's audience, the general reader who doesn't know what to look for, is being considered.
If the gaming press uses a colon, and it seems that even fan sites use the colon [1][2][3][4], then it stands to reason that the most commonly used name is Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. If you want to get a second opinion on the matter, you are welcome to, but I believe the colon should stay and the case should remain normal. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC))
A minor, unrelated rebuttal against every-word capitalization: Wikipedia is able to find, even redirect, articles regardless of the capitalization used, and therefore the song titles' capitalization scheme should be retained in official format for accuracy of referred information (that is, not-so-in-the-know people coming here for getting in-the-know).
Actually, this matter is sort of related, since my (now mostly reverted) self-induced policy on the difference between official and popular formats is that the article (possibly section) titles are rendered according to Wikipedia's filing system while the article itself makes use of and/or mentions to (in the references, at the very least) the official syntax. I figure that this is the best compromise between finding what you want to know about and actually knowing it right. T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 06:35, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I will comment that the general idea about naming is to make the page as accessible to all readers as possible; thus we use common names instead of foreign names when there is an official translation, we ignore odd trademark spelling save in a few cases like "eBay" and "iPod" as to make it clear what the article is, and (to this end) we should use a title that is both common and easier to understand to users. A reader that is unaware of what "Kingdom Hearts" is will balk at a title "Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories", but "Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories" is much clearer to read, even if that is not what Squenix calls it. We can provide all redirects for the variations, but given that the bulk of english gaming literature uses the colon and it is much easier to understand what the game is with it than without, I believe it should stay without the colon. --MASEM 13:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
May the consolation of in-article/in-references use of the official format be instated? At least for the references, I'd say, since making the article easy-to-read/comprehend is fine for those that just want general info, but someone bothered enough to check references could pick up on officialities (these really oughta become real words, eh?) to become further nerds of a given subject. T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 05:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
If the reference title uses no colon, it should use no colon in the reference, but if you are talking about the in-game source quotes that needs to be consistent with how the page is given (thus colonized). Now, we can mention in the first line that Squenix documents also call the game without the colon, and make sure the colon-less name is redirected to here, but once it is decided that the common name is with the colon (presuming that stays), that form should be used consistently throughout the article.
(and just to provide another datapoint, there is an EA skateboarding game, that EA insists is called "skate." (lowercase and period included) Refering to the game in that form throughout the article would be extremely cumbersome, so the game is simply called "Skate" with passing note to the "official" spelling.) --MASEM 12:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Including "(marketed as KINGDOM HEARTS CHAIN OF MEMORIES) sounds reasonable to me. I figure the others should also include something similar.
On a side note, do we even need the Japanese there? I know some editors dislike it on video game articles. And in this case, it is straight katakana of the English title. Seem a bit superfluous. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC))
  • Masem: Fair enough, much as I don't like it, but ease of use is a fine reason. At least the words themselves are retained in order (something that the COMPILATION titles and DISSIDIA seem to get doink'd for).
  • Guyinblack25: That sounds good, but where to put it might be a problem. The Glden Sun characters page uses a table for the different names among regions, but that seems like space wasted for what's the same title everywhere. I would like to say using the official title right at the front of the article would be good, since it's the second thing typically seen and acts as a header, and then the common use can pervade the rest of the article; might also could be used in the info box to the right, since that's also in a title sort of position and is conveniently out of the way of the major info areas (above a picture, which is quite a buffer). Also, I support keeping the Japanese form there. it allows for people to know just what it had been called, keeps articles consistent, and works for modern SE releases, which seem to be getting the non-English/Latin treatment all over the place (FFCC:MLaaK, FFT[:]TWOTL, etc.).
  • The Prince of Darkness: Maybe... I wouldn't like it, but it seems to run in-line with the "norm". However, I'd like to argue that unlike other COMP. titles, AC's has the FFVII portion preceding the "subtitle".
T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 09:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories[edit]

USA is expected to get a standalone title for this game: http://www.rpgsite.net/news/256.html

Though its name is without the Re it seems. 66.168.19.135 (talk) 12:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The release is with the "Re:", if you ould bother checking, I dunno, an official source (ex: http://www.square-enix.com/na/company/press/2008/0919/). T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 08:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't bother editing my talk stuff here, because I thought people would assume I looked at the official press release. *shrugs* Oh well. 66.168.19.135 (talk) 14:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
And... I further sound like an Internet asshole. T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 10:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:CoM cover?[edit]

With all due respect, considering Re:Chain of Memories is a standalone video game now, should we include an image of the game cover? It is my understanding that one such image was deleted once before. Immblueversion (talk) 20:19, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Manga Section Wording[edit]

My apologies for not discussing before my edit. The last two sentences of the Manga section may be misinterpreted to the reader:


"The series was followed by a third manga series, Kingdom Hearts II. The manga series was rereleased in a boxed set in the United States on October 9, 2007."


The restating of 'the manga series' again in the second sentence makes one think that it refers to a set of Kingdom Hearts II manga being released on that date rather than Chain of Memories (despite the obvious article subject).

I edited the second sentence to read as follows:


"The Chain of Memories manga series was rereleased in a boxed set in the United States on October 9, 2007."


This is one option for it to work, although it may be more fluent to switch the sentences with the reference to the sequel series at the end, shown here. (Possibly with another Chain of Memories clarification in the second sentence.)


"The manga series was rereleased in a boxed set in the United States on October 9, 2007. The series was followed by a third manga series, Kingdom Hearts II."


Any opinions on the best option? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LocoFish (talkcontribs) 03:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it works just fine with the way you have it edited now. Fantasy Dragon (talk) 03:45, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree, it looks good to me. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:31, 7 January 2009 (UTC))

European Release?[edit]

It now says on this page that the PS2 remake will be released in Europe on April 17, 2009, and it's sourced. Is this true? It's just that KH Ultimania and KH Insider haven't said anything about a European release date for Re:Chain of Memories, and that's not something they'd have missed so easily. Is the game even coming out in Europe? Jienum (talk) 12:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Inclusion of Final Fantasy[edit]

First off, I never said it'd confuse the reader. Not sure where that came from. Secondly, it's not a spin-off. Kingdom Hearts is a separate series, it just includes cameos and other elements from Final Fantasy. You say just because one person, me, disagrees, does not make it so. However, one person, you, agrees, so how does that make it so? What I'm saying is, KH is not FF and FF is not KH, which is why the template should not be included in this article. Thanks. Fantasy Dragon (talk) 02:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I think they were referring to some of my comments; I stated that the template could confuse general readers. I stand by that statement because as you pointed out "KH is not FF and FF is not KH", and I believe the template could imply otherwise to a non-gamer. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC))