Talk:Lagerstätte

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Pronunciation guide[edit]

I think this article would benefit from a pronunciation guide. Mel 97.124.136.230 (talk) 04:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The German word literally translates as "resting places." - According to my Paleobiology Text book (by Derek Briggs) Lagerstätten means is dervived from mining traddition and means any rock or sedimentary body containing constituents of economic interest. The correct word is fossil-Lagerstätten, that is fossil bearing rocks worthy of exploitation. Which of the two is correct? Any German speakers out there? Sabine's Sunbird 11:25, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In a paleontological context, the "fossil-" is now understood; Paleobiology II came out in a new edition in 2003. The "worthy of exploitation" aspect is less relevant, outside the extractive industries, where the word was originally coined. "Lagerstätten" appears even in article titles nowadays, I notice. Even if it were less correct, the more common usage always makes the better heading for a Wikipedia article, don't you think? --Wetman
  • Sorry, I was unclear. What I meant was that the origin of the word laggerstatten was from fossil-lagerstatten, as in "fossil bearing rocks worthy of exploitation", rather than lagerstatten from the word 'resting place'. Thus the wording of the article should reflect this (I wasn't suggesting changiing the title), assuming that that is the correct origin of the word Sabine's Sunbird 15:59, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Konzentrat-Lagerstätten (or concentration Lagerstätten) signifies deposits with a particular concentration of disarticulated organic hard parts, such as a bone bed" — adding "or an oyster bed" shows a misunderstanding of the geology or of the German. Shelly parts of an oyster bed that have been concentrated in an accumulation away from their living site (through tidal forces etc.) are the only possible example I can think of for this addition. Oyster beds preserved in situ are not Konzentrat-Lagerstätten. I have not removed this confusing addition, following the general principle Avoid unnecessary interference. --Wetman 14:59, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I added it as a further example of accumilation deposits, I guess it could be confusing for the reasons you gave. Maybe an ammonite coquina would be a better example? Sabine's Sunbird 15:59, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi, folks! I am the german native speaker you where asking for. First: the german word Lagerstätte does not derive from resting place. A resting place, in the sense of a camp or a grave, would simply be Lager, or Grab respectively. Lagerstätte rather stems from Lage, in the sense of "layer", and is solely used in conection with Mineral Deposits, not with fossil-Lagerstätten (as in english), nor with archeological sites (as in spanish). The article es:yacimiento in the spanish Wikipedia, to wich this article is linked, is actually a Definition-choise page (or what ever you call it), that does list all three meanings. Second: the german term for a paleontological, or archeological site is: Fundstätte (= findingplace). Unfortunatately this english page is now linked to the german page de:Lagerstätte, which itself is linked to the english page deposit. So, every now and then appears some mindless bot, and changes the link back to this (incorrect) page (mumbling Hasta la vista, baby in the process). Would you please be so kind, to delete your current german link and change it to the article de:Fundstätte? Yours sincerely.
Ups! The article "Fundstätte" does not exist yet. So, just please delete the link to "Lagerstätte". User:Geoz.
I read - I think in Palæobiology II - a synthesis - that it meant 'Mother Lode'. Is this a literal translation, or an anglicisation? Verisimilus T 17:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
There actually is the german word Lagerstatt meaning resting place, it is just not commonly used anymore. The word Lagerstätte with the meaning of resting place exists as well in german language, it is not an everyday word anymore either but still can be found in literature (poetry and alike). Both Lagerstatt and Lagerstätte have the same plural Lagerstätten. -- 87.78.198.78 (talk) 01:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Does Big Bone Lick, Kentucky, qualify?[edit]

Big Bone Lick State Park preserves the site of a deposit of Pleistocene megafauna fossils. I recall reading somewhere (sorry, I can't find the reference) that it ranks second as such in North America, after Rancho La Brea, California. Does it rate a mention in a list of Lagerstätten, or categorization as such? Teratornis 16:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

No, this perennial schoolboy favorite, though a site where fossils have been retrieved, is not a lagerstätte. --Wetman 23:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, why not? Insufficient number of fossils? Insufficient diversity? The fact that many or possibly most of the fossils originally in the site are now in museums around the world? Why doesn't Lagerstätte explain the arbitrary distinction to the schoolboys who constitute a large percentage of Wikipedia readers? (Incidentally, I feel cheated to have passed through childhood during the before time, as in before Wikipedia.) Perhaps some schoolboys would not understand why Big Bone fails the definition of [1]: La Brea is an example of a concentration Lagerstätten, because it is noted for its large quantity of fossils. The tar pits formed concentration traps in which organisms became trapped and died. Other examples of concentration Lagerstätten include fissure fills, cave deposits and bone beds. As Wikipedia is to be written for the nonexpert, the distinction bears explaining. Perhaps a section could be added: "Fossil deposits that don't make the cut, and why" or something to that effect. Along with an audio file of derisive laughter from Eric Cartman, to drive the point home. --Teratornis 19:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I merely meant "schoolboy favorite" as in that perennial schoolboy favorite pope, Pope Hilarius: with their contracted cultural horizons, today's schoolboys doubtless have other favorites, closer to home. Or jokes are harsher and more violent. At any rate, not every bone bed with dramatic megafauna is a lagerstätte: La Brea also trapped pollen. That should be made clearer in the article: a lagerstätte offers a snapshot, frozen in time, of a paleoecology. --Wetman 13:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Seilacher himself uses the term pretty inclusively; neither exceptional preservation nor a lack of time averaging is needed to qualify as a Lagerstätte. See my comments below. -- DE 72.48.177.50 (talk) 17:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Naracoorte Caves National Park[edit]

Does this also qualify, it is quite famous for the fossils it contains. Enlil Ninlil 06:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think. If La Brea Tar Pits form a lagerstätte, don't these less familiar caves, too? Let's wait to hear what others think. --Wetman 23:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I don't think anyone would argue with you if you called it a konsentrat-lagerstatten. I don't think it's quite a case of "qualifying"! Verisimilus T 13:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Ghost Ranch[edit]

Ghost Ranch, though it is linked, does not have an article on its palaeo. It should have. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

ditto Karatau. All names not linked to a palaeo article should be red-linked by name-change, eg. "Ghost Ranch formation". Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:55, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
It's the Chinle Formation, not the "ghost ranch formation", and I'm not sure it would even qualify. Also, I'm assuming what you call "Karatau" is the Karabastau Formation, which is actually Jurassic, not Triassic. Dgrootmyers (talk) 00:32, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Addition request - Mangrullo Formation[edit]

Transferred from inappropriately placed request from the main article space. I'll see if I can add it myself-- OBSIDIANSOUL 18:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Please, add the recently described Early Permian Mangrullo, mesosaur bearing, Konservat Lagerstätte from Uruguay to the list of important Lagerstätten. This is the oldest and only known Paleozoic Lagerstätte from South America, and preserves extraordinary well preserved mesosaur reptiles and pygocephalomorph crustaceans, including the oldest known amniote embryos and putative eggs, and phosphatized delicate structures as blood vessels and nerves. Source: Piñeiro, G.; Ramos, A.; Goso, C.; Scarabino, F. & Laurin, M. 2012. Unusual environmental conditions produced a Konservat Lagerstätte from Uruguay. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica, 57 (2): 299–318.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Graciela Piñeiro (talkcontribs) 14:54, 17 October 2012‎ (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done I'll try to create an article on the formation itself based on your paper as well. Feel free to correct it if I make any errors. Cheers. -- OBSIDIANSOUL 18:36, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

The List is Badly Named![edit]

In one of the earliest English papers I could find on the subject, Dolf Seilacher puts forward a very, very broad definition of a fossil-Lagerstätten.

"Corresponding to economic Lagerstätten of minerals and ores, fossil Lagerstätten were defined as rock bodies unusually rich in palaeontological information, either in a quantitative or qualitative sense. This means that the term embraces not only strata with an unusual preservation, but also less spectacular deposits such as shell beds, bone beds and crinoidal limestones. The concept also implies that there is no sharp boundary with 'normal' fossiliferous rocks."
[1]

Exceptional preservation is explicitly called unnecessary, and time-averaging is not mentioned. Please note that this is Dr. Seilacher's own definition for a fossil Lagerstätten, and since he originated the term, there isn't much wiggle room here. When he refers to these less spectacular deposits he is referring to konzentrat-Lagerstätten and not konservat, but Lagerstätten nonetheless. Things like oyster beds or vertebrate bonebeds are Lagerstätten regardless of the quality of preservation or the duration of deposition. The list as it stands seems to be mostly of koservat-Lagerstätten, with an uneven sprinkling of the most notable konzentrat-Lagerstätten. It is not nearly as exhaustive as it ought to be given the title. Even so, I realize that a truly exhaustive list of notable Lagerstätten would be daunting, since most invertebrate and a large percentage of vertebrate sites would qualify, but there we are. The list should either be renamed "Important konservat-Lagerstätten," or made a great deal more inclusive. If the latter option is selected, places like Big Bone Lick, Como Bluff / Morrison Formation, and the entire Cincinnatian sequence should absolutely be included. --DE 72.48.177.50 (talk) 17:58, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

  1. ^ Sedimentological, Ecological and Temporal Patterns of Fossil Lagerstätten [and Discussion]: A. Seilacher, W.-E. Reif, F. Westphal, R. Riding, E.N.K. Clarkson and H.B. Whittington. Phil. Trans. R. Soc. Lond. B 1985 311.

I edited the title to reflect the true nature of the list. 72.48.177.50 (talk) 18:51, 3 January 2014 (UTC)