Talk:Larry Ray (criminal)

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 16 November 2024 by reviewer PARAKANYAA (talk · contribs).

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No Larry Ray page?

Moved from Talk:Larry Ray (cult leader)

'Why doesn’t he have his own page, given the Stolen Youth documentary series? https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/02/larry-ray-sarah-lawrence-sex-cult YourBrainOnDrugs (talk) 16:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Acceptance

I accepted this, because he's very clearly notable even if the article is a bit of a mess, every contentious BLP statement is well cited. I moved it to "criminal" instead of "cult leader" per MOS:CULT - you can't be convicted of being a cult leader, but he did get convicted of sex crimes. Normally this should be group focused, but the group seems to have been informal and have no name, so this is the best we can do. PARAKANYAA (talk) 15:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA: I think labelling a person a criminal is also a contentious label, possibly worse than "cult leader, because it is not supported by the sources. Whether this person is labeled as a "cult leader" or "criminal" could also be seen as having an associated point of view naming issues. This person's name has also been reported as Lawrence Ray and Lawrence V. Ray. The latter is currently a redirect to a section in the Sarah Lawrence College article that was headed Abuse by Larry Ray, which has since been renamed. While both Larry Ray and Lawrence Ray now need to be disambiguation pages, it seems to me that Lawrence V. Ray should at least redirect here and is potentially the best neutral title for this article. This would also result in natural disambiguation, which is usually preferable to having to use parenthetical disambiguation. I think a page move appropriate here. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cameron Dewe I don't care what it is as long as it is not "cult leader" - I think that is worse than criminal, in any case, because whether one is or isn't a criminal can be factual, while cult leader has no real definition. The argument for having it at "Larry Ray", I believe, is that that is the common name quite overwhelmingly, but I'm not sure how much I buy that. Lawrence V. Ray is probably fine. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]