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Switch Region releases

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On most list of games for a platform, it lists where and if it was released in a certain region, which seems not to be the case with Nintendo switch, is this on purpose? or maybe not added yet? shouldn't we list the regions the games were released in? just in case someone needs to know if there is English language support? as I wanted to have a Europe collection and maybe other people may also want something similar? thanks! StarStorm10 (talk) 05:42, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah we used to have that, see e.g. Special:Permalink/1058065786, but it was removed after a consensus on the talk page because it required too many page splits due to the technical limits on page size. This is because of the sheer number of games on Switch, and also some Wikipedia editors are enforcing very strictly the citation requirements for this list, which has not really been the case for other lists. Kidburla (talk) 10:43, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think that maybe in the future we will begin to add region releases? thanks! StarStorm10 (talk) 17:56, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, because the page is only going to get bigger... Sergecross73 msg me 18:17, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally as en.wiki, our focus is on the primary english release regions - as well as Japan where a siginficant fraction of games come from too. --Masem (t) 18:19, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Like you said as en.wiki the focus is English release regions, as the MoS states games released in non English regions, such as japan only should be stated and maybe a note should be added with letting people know if its only available in Japan such as how the Game Boy Advance list of games is displayed as the MoS states to make it clear if a game is not released in English regions, plus I agree only listing notable switch games is correct as there are so many switch games, But I feel as the English wiki, games only released outside of the English regions, EU/NA/AU/NZ should definitely be displayed and explained, especially on games that have no page, thanks! StarStorm10 (talk) 08:05, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As the MoS. Release dates should be provided for primarily English-speaking regions, including North America, Europe, and Australia/New Zealand. If the video game is first released in a non-English country, commonly in Japan, then that should also be stated. Maybe its best to try and adhere to these guidelines, as an English Wikipedia, its important to state if a game is not released in an English speaking region if possible? StarStorm10 (talk) 13:36, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The MOS is referring to singular game's articles, not lists like this. Sergecross73 msg me 13:39, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But what do we do about games that doesn't have its own article? StarStorm10 (talk) 13:50, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to check if a game is released in a certain region, go check your region's respective Nintendo.com and/or eshop store. Sergecross73 msg me 13:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamic list

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There are currently almost 9000 games for Switch of which we only list less than 4500. I've mostly given up editing this list (as I was frustrated that due to citation requirements, no matter how much effort I put in I can't get even close to a complete list, and no one else was really working on it) and there haven't been many others editing recently either. Would anyone oppose putting the {{dynamic list}} template on this list, to indicate that we're never expecting to get anything close to a complete list here? And I guess after the Switch console lifetime comes to an end, we can replace with {{incomplete list}}. Kidburla (talk) 18:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh it's definitely a dynamic list currently. -- ferret (talk) 18:13, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
While I appreciate your efforts in creating a complete list, this list should be split into two lists. Physical copies should be on one page and digital only games on another. As digital rights in the form of the right to sell titles under agree upon contractual terms frequently change, the physical copies list should be the main page. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 23:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are...way behind. There's been a ton of debate on this. I recommend skimming through the talk page archives to get caught up first. Sergecross73 msg me 00:02, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergecross73: Actually I think restricting to only physical releases might not be such a bad idea. We have often talked about how we would set inclusion criteria and ideas such as "only titles from major studios" were discarded because how do you define "major". But only physical might be a good idea because most "major" releases include a physical release. I couldn't really find any AAA games that didn't get a physical release. I don't remember us discussing this specifically before as a yardstick for notability? Kidburla (talk) 11:42, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That was discussed in the past too, when people kept wanting to add a column indicating whether or not a game was physically released. There's massive gaps in reliable source coverage on physical releases. Sure, it's easy to confirm Mario Kart or Zelda releases physically, but with 100s and 1000s of titles, there's many that don't. It's not just a Switch thing either, it's been discussed on other platform game lists too. Sergecross73 msg me 12:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
eats some Doritos, chewing slowly What if.... what if under WP:NOT.... we simply declared that categorizing every piece of software on a platform is simply NOTCATALOG period. LISTN is arguably failed as "every game on platform!" is never covered. -- ferret (talk) 22:38, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ferret: I would agree with you and I think others would too. But what's the answer? Don't have a list of Switch games at all, or have a list that's restricted in some way, and if so what? That's why I was eager for the chance to use physical releases as a way to restrict the list. Although I didn't know there was a sourcing issue, and anyway I guess it wouldn't be consistent with other lists such as the lists of PC/Windows games. Kidburla (talk) 23:04, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a problem with staying the course. It's okay if the list is incomplete. There is no deadline. Maybe someone else picks things up later. Maybe they don't and it's just an incomplete approximation. It's okay either way. Sergecross73 msg me 00:17, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for not closing ranks on my suggestion. If you look at all past Nintendo console game lists, the games that got physical releases are the only games on the main lists. A dynamic list with 4,500 to 9,000 games, most of which cannot be confirmed or purchased from any retailer, is hardly a good reference point for gamers or collectors. For all previous Nintendo game lists, digital only games were reserved for the virtual console lists for the systems with online functionality. The difference with Switch in this regard is that there are digital games available to play only through subscription service. As with any subscription service, the library catalogue changes over time. Thus, the current list is an overly complicated oddity among Wikipedia game lists.
I don't understand why it would be so hard stick with the format of all previous Nintendo game lists? As far as the issue with sources to verify whether or not a game release got a physical copy release it is relatively easy to find evidence. Prior to the pandemic, all new game releases got physical releases. This can be confirmed by solicitations for the games on multiple platforms. Since the pandemic, some games, such as Doom Eternal, have not yet got a physical release. For games that missed physical releases due to the pandemic, Limited Run Games is handling the manufacturing and distribution of officially licensed physical copies. A few other classic and remastered titles, such as Doom: The Classic Collection, have also got Limited Run releases. The trend is easy to track. Whenever there was a remastered classic that didn't get a wide physical release, Limited Run solicited the release online. So long as the game was released as a new title while Switch was in concurrently in production, it is an officially licensed physical release. 70.39.20.33 (talk) 01:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am 70.39.20.33
I wasn't logged in. :) MCMichaelComstock (talk) 01:23, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pointing out past lists as an example is a false equivalency. They didn't have digital only distribution. Time and time again the project has reached a consensus not to divide these lists by physical and digital, and has merged or removed such designations. Additionally, it's widely accepted that prior lists have bad WP:V failings. This list has tried to avoid such failing, which has created new issues such as technical size limitations. -- ferret (talk) 01:56, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wii and Wii U had digital only. The lists for those consoles were formatted like the previous generation Nintendo game lists but a second list was created for virtual console "digital only" games. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 02:14, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is a different designation where the Virtual Console is treated almost like a separate application. The Wii U list DOES include Eshop games. -- ferret (talk) 02:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was pretty much suggesting deleting the lists entirely yeah :) We have categories for notable stuff. This is not a suggestion I expect to carry forward though lol. -- ferret (talk) 01:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, I am not sure I support your nuclear winter approach. Perhaps, "copy and paste" this list to create a second list for digital only releases. I could get behind that idea. Gamers like myself who like to play cartridge Nintendo games are a faithful cult that supports and protects IP, the evolution of classic IP onto modern formats, and the longevity of interoperable games on generational platforms. There can't be many more than 500 Nintendo Switch games that got limited or wide releases. If you cannot go to a retailer and buy a physical copy of a game the game becomes little more than a myth in the history of the gaming industry. Thus, we have handy Wikipedia pages to track what came before and we limit the game lists to physical games that can be verified by the community of gamers in perpetuity as official licensed products. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 02:10, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's not going to happen. We're not going to split the list. The discussions before that you said weren't closing ranks were not support of splitting the list, but of removing non-physical games from this list entirely without a replacement listing. Everything on this list is already verified. We're not interested in the needs of physical collectors. -- ferret (talk) 02:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. Serge also stated it's not a race. We don't need to have a complete list until the system has been discontinued. The Wii U list has games that were available as both physical and digital downloads, but there is a separate list for digital only games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_for_Wii_U_(North_America) MCMichaelComstock (talk) 02:38, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're still misunderstand. The above list is not a list of "digital only games". Non-emulation Eshop games are not included in it. It is a list of games explicitly part of the Virtual Console program. -- ferret (talk) 02:40, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games_on_Wii_U_eShop MCMichaelComstock (talk) 02:41, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Both the Wii U VC and eShop lists are separate and exclusive from the primary list of Wii U titles. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 02:45, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A separate cross-categorization, which should be merged, but I'm only one person and don't have time to watch over every possible list. -- ferret (talk) 02:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These lists are well organized, easy to navigate, and the titles contained on them are exclusive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_U_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Virtual_Console_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WiiWare_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games_on_Wii_U_eShop
Why is there so much resistance on the page for the seventh gen console to making non-dynamic, neat, and accurate lists? One could merge the Wii and Wii U lists onto the same page but merging them into one list would be akin to a stream of conscious torrent that was subjectively pieced together instead of an objective cataloguing of the games. Take a look at those pages, such as the lists of VC games. These lists were made to be user friendly. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 03:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not following. The List of Wii games is an absolute eyesore. Its entirely overwhelming with its mass of information and entirely unsourced. It's nothing we should aspire to recreate on Wikipedia. It needs to be cleaned up if anything. Sergecross73 msg me 03:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These lists set the bar low. The problem is that the Switch lists are below the bar. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 03:28, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Below what bar? Sergecross73 msg me 04:05, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to clean up the Wii page by bundling the titles as they are bundled on the Switch page. I like how that was done and I appreciate that efforts are being made to create this list. I wish that I were more competent writing the scripts, however. I have only ever made substantial changes to one Wikipedia page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Variance_Authority, as 89.19.88.78.
You stated the Wii page was an eyesore that needs cleaned up. I was making a second observation that dividing the titles into separate lists based on the format of the game is neater and easier to navigate than the alternative of a single, dynamic list that does not differentiate between the sources for the games, be it physical, digital, etc. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 04:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just reading these messages as I wake up in my timezone so a few random thoughts/responses/questions:

  1. Regarding @Sergecross73's comment that it's okay to keep it as an "incomplete approximation", I tend to disagree because it's not a very good approximation. The list is already at a point where it contains less than half of all Switch games, and this will get worse as more games are released every week. There are even some games on the list that are not verified (these were the ones I added without sources initially before being told not to, and I only got so far through the process of retroactively adding sources before giving up), so those arguably should be removed from the list which would make it an even worse approximation.
  2. I do agree with @Ferret's response that comparing to previous console lists is a false equivalency, but only to some extent. Historically, games released for consoles had to be released physically (I'm thinking of sixth gen and earlier) and this was a barrier to entry for low quality games (shovelware etc) meaning that pretty much every game on the platform was notable in some way. Clearly, this is why we didn't have the same problems in previous lists (and even going into the Wii and Wii U eras as those platforms only had a very limited digital offering). I think trying to replicate that on Switch is not without merit, and if we could limit the list to only physical games, it would naturally avoid the notability issues with the current list.
  3. @MCMichaelComstock: You say "This can be confirmed by solicitations for the games on multiple platforms" - can you give some examples? I searched for some examples of games which had physical releases and I couldn't find a consistent way of finding sources for the game having a physical release, or any reliable sources at all in some cases.
  4. Regarding the last comment that "dividing the titles into separate lists based on the format of the game is neater and easier to navigate", I think it's only easier to navigate for physical cartridge collectors, and I agree with ferret that we aren't here to cater to the needs of collectors. Note that even if we did split the list, the digital list would still be a dynamic list, so we haven't really solved anything. I was advocating removing all of the digital-only games from the list, not splitting the list, but this is contingent on being able to find reliable sources that a physical edition exists for any given game. Kidburla (talk) 07:11, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kidburla thank you for your reply. I will attempt to a full answer later tonight when I have the time. I want to note that Nintendo has a rich history going back to SNES with Super Mario All-Stars of remastering old games and releasing new versions of the games for new generations of gamers. I mentioned that I am a classic game collector because I wanted to share my amateur background as a Nintendo game researcher. I do not expect this Wiki page to be tailored for collectors, but what is the point of creating a list if the list is predictably going to remain a contentious and unreliable source of information? By separating out the games by release format it is easier to judge the the quality of the evidence. Digital only games that have never had a physical release on any other platform should be on a separate list because they will have the most clouded provenience. I think of the Microsoft purchase of Bethesda as an example of a precursor to and note on the ephemeral nature of digital only releases. Should id Software games such the Switch and PS4 port of Quake become XBox exclusives due to a change in the contract between Nintendo and Bethesda in concert with the new contract with Bethesda and XBox we could lose games like Diablo II: Resurrected and Quake. These are major studio titles with multiple patches and millions of online players. Dumping them from a list all together, therefore, should not be a considered option. Nearly every Nintendo R&D, EAD, and EPD developed game has plenty of solicited information on the physical releases of the game. Most all other games that have physical releases across multiple gaming consoles and platforms have solicitations for the release on all said platforms.
Note: I will write a proper "response" to each of the above listed 1-4 comments in the near future. 70.39.20.33 (talk) 11:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is a list of games released on the Switch. It is not a list of games *currently available on the Switch*. The argument that "games could be removed from the digital store at any time" is no more important than the fact that physical releases will go out of print. -- ferret (talk) 13:34, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It makes verifiability of digital only games essential. When the Switch has been discontinued and new games cannot be downloaded physical copies will continue to circulate and to be used on any console still working. And when third-party clone systems begin to fill the vacuum of demand as old officially licensed Switch consoles stop working the physical cartridges will continue to be played. This is another reason why differentiation of the format and source of games is so important on this list.
May I ask, what do you think the purpose of this list is if you do not think it is important to note the source and format of the games nor do you think it is important to note whether the game is still available to consumers? 70.39.20.33 (talk) 00:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's been discussed and tested before, and it's consistently true - we cannot reliably source whether or not games are physical or digital on an entire library level. Doubly so when you're talking about a massive library like the Switch's. And when you can't reliably source something, it falls outside of the scope of Wikipedia. And if you don't hit the sourcing wall, you'll hit the manpower wall, as in, these proposals are a massive undertaking and there relatively few willing to see it through. Sergecross73 msg me 00:52, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just reading these messages as I wake up in my timezone so a few random thoughts/responses/questions:
  1. Regarding @Sergecross73's comment that it's okay to keep it as an "incomplete approximation", I tend to disagree because it's not a very good approximation. The list is already at a point where it contains less than half of all Switch games, and this will get worse as more games are released every week. There are even some games on the list that are not verified (these were the ones I added without sources initially before being told not to, and I only got so far through the process of retroactively adding sources before giving up), so those arguably should be removed from the list which would make it an even worse approximation.
I believe that removing all the digital only games from this list is a good idea. As is, it is about as unfeasible to stay this course as it would be to try to catalog every new app added to Apple Apps and Google Apps, etc.  That does not mean all the work done needs to be deleted.
This list should be a physical games only list.  Even when consoles go digital only [i.e., the now defunct Google Stadia], there should be multiple lists for the games by format and source. Digital only games belong on independent lists.  This page is already organized in part to reflect what I think is the best way to organize the information.
For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_Online_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_Archives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Ages#Nintendo_Switch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-Mode_Archives
Games that had physical releases on previous generation consoles and games that had physical releases on other, non-Switch current-gen consoles should be listed separately and organized appropriately.
Games like Bizzard’s Diablo II: Resurrected should be listed somewhere because they had physical releases in the past on other consoles and because the Switch version is an impressive remaster, not a simple port.
Games that were developed for digital release on other consoles already have Wikipedia pages and can be cross-referenced onto a list of the same games available on Switch.  For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_downloadable_PlayStation_Portable_games
Lists like the following are also helpful, as they contain verified sources for each title:
https://playstation.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_Plus_monthly_games_(North_America)
A separate page with digital only games available for Switch could contain hotlinks to pages such as these above pages for games available on Switch that were developed as digital games for other consoles.
Games on these PlayStation lists include https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Second_Ninja_X and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyss_of_the_Sacrifice and hundreds of other games on the Switch games list.
So, in addition to the Sega and Arcade game lists, what I am suggesting is that we should port the digital only games currently on this list onto other, new lists that have hyperlinks on the current list and a note explaining why each list is unique.
Indie developers are important to Switch, so there should be a page devoted to them.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/becoming-a-nintendo-switch-indie-dev-will-be-tough-early-on
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/1/14777672/nintendo-switch-indie-games-releases
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2017/12/28/how-nintendo-is-changing-its-approach-to-indie-developers.aspx
(There are more links at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Switch under Games --> Third Party Support)
  1. I do agree with @Ferret's response that comparing to previous console lists is a false equivalency, but only to some extent. Historically, games released for consoles had to be released physically (I'm thinking of sixth gen and earlier) and this was a barrier to entry for low quality games (shovelware etc) meaning that pretty much every game on the platform was notable in some way. Clearly, this is why we didn't have the same problems in previous lists (and even going into the Wii and Wii U eras as those platforms only had a very limited digital offering). I think trying to replicate that on Switch is not without merit, and if we could limit the list to only physical games, it would naturally avoid the notability issues with the current list.
Wii, Wii U, 3DS, and, to some extent, 2DS games already follow the listing format I mentioned above.  See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_U_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Virtual_Console_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WiiWare_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games_on_Wii_U_eShop
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DSiWare_games_and_applications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQue#iQue_DS_2
Granted, there will be more lists and links to the Switch page.  The physical games should, as noted, be the primary game list.
  1. @MCMichaelComstock: You say "This can be confirmed by solicitations for the games on multiple platforms" - can you give some examples? I searched for some examples of games which had physical releases and I couldn't find a consistent way of finding sources for the game having a physical release, or any reliable sources at all in some cases.
Verifying the physical releases will take a dynamic approach.  Most games can be confirmed by visiting the game websites. The sites allow you to order the physical copies or they send to you a retailer that sells them:
https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/games
https://store.na.square-enix-games.com/en_US?_ga=2.206525395.1798457280.1664592452-1303615240.1664592452
https://www.monolithsoft.co.jp/games/nintendo-switch/
https://www.capcom.com/
https://offers.capcom.com/        
https://www.monsterhunter.com/rise/us/
https://www.bandainamcoent.com/games?platform=switch      
https://store.bandainamcoent.com/platforms/nintendo-switch/
https://bethesda.net/en/dashboard        
Etc.
You can also order physical cartridges from the Nintendo.com individual game pages.  Additionally, there are some basic pages that are good starting points to determine what games have physical releases:
https://www.nintendolife.com/nintendo-switch/games/browse
This list contains every game that was supposed to have a wide release cartridge release:
https://www.imore.com/nintendo-switch-games
Every game on the imore.com list has a link to the Amazon.com listing for the physical game.  One exception is Doom Eternal.  It is on the imore.com list but doesn’t have a physical release yet:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/11/doom_eternal_for_switch_will_no_longer_receive_a_physical_release
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/06/surprise-doom-eternal-is-getting-a-limited-run-physical-release-on-switch
https://limitedrungames.com/products/switch-limited-run-154-doom-eternal
According to imore.com, there are 577 wide release cartridges.  After identifying games on this list, they can be confirmed on the official game websites found on the developer and distributor pages.
Limited Run games handles limited runs of officially licensed cartridge releases. The games appear to all have been released on previous platforms, with Doom Eternal as one notable exception.  The Limited Run games don’t appear to be on the imore.com list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Limited_Run_Games_releases
The above Limited Run list is, um, limited.  It doesn’t have Star Wars: The Force Unleased for Switch, among others, such as Doom: The Classics Collection.  Unfortunately, Limited Run’s archived game list is a dead link.
The Limited Run games are also sold on Amazon.com.
For example:
https://www.amazon.com/Doom-Classics-Collection-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B09KP1FXZF
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Limited+Run+Games&ref=bl_dp_s_web_0
Even though the Limited Run Switch game archive is a dead link, a search engine inquiry into the every Switch game they produced will locate the game page on https://limitedrungames.com/    
When all else fails, web searches for news on the games usually contains reports on solicitations, most of which are video solicitations these days.
  1. Regarding the last comment that "dividing the titles into separate lists based on the format of the game is neater and easier to navigate", I think it's only easier to navigate for physical cartridge collectors, and I agree with ferret that we aren't here to cater to the needs of collectors. Note that even if we did split the list, the digital list would still be a dynamic list, so we haven't really solved anything. I was advocating removing all of the digital-only games from the list, not splitting the list, but this is contingent on being able to find reliable sources that a physical edition exists for any given game. Kidburla (talk) 07:11, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, remove all the digital only games from this list be utilize the already existing digital only links found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_games
Not included in the main list are:
And, add a few new lists containing these digital only games currently on the primary game lists.  The new lists to be added should be:
1.     Limited run cartridge releases,
2.     Digital games developed for Switch,
3.     Digital games developed for and ported from other platforms/consoles, and
4.     Digital games developed as physical games for previous gen platforms/consoles and ported to Switch. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 03:27, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wow that's a long reply. I'm sorry as I'm going to be mostly saying the same things again but:
  1. Splitting the list into physical and digital doesn't achieve anything in my opinion and it seems others agree. We would still have digital as a dynamic list as I've mentioned. Your argument seems to be based on physical releases being more available after the Switch's lifetime is over, but I personally don't see the difference between a physical cartridge and a game dump of a digital game. Both could still be used after sales ended.
  2. My interest in this is only in removing those games from the list to restrict based on notability as I've mentioned before.
  3. Any kind of physical/digital info on Switch is going to be limited by sourcing. iMore is not considered a reliable source. And I'm afraid just providing some links to publisher websites doesn't solve the problem. As Serge said, there's no way to consistently source these. Here's some examples I found: (a) Hello Neighbor, (b) 30 in 1 Game Collection Volume 1, (c) LOL Surprise Remix, (d) My Universe Fashion Boutique. I couldn't find reliable sources stating there was a physical release for any of these games. This is the key point for me.
  4. The additional Switch lists you mention (Arcade Archives etc) were just extracted to declutter the main list, not to categorize digital games differently. Also, these are specific brands, which is more akin to something like WiiWare in previous generations, whereas digital only games is not a specific brand.
  5. The fact you are suggesting even more lists (indie developers, games which had a physical release in a previous generation, games which had a physical release on another platform etc) means I'm afraid you have no idea the amount of work it takes to maintain these lists and the limited manpower on Wikipedia. The idea of creating even more lists is frankly laughable to me (sorry) when we don't even have 50% of the Switch games on our existing list. I tried for about 2 months to improve the coverage, working on it every single day, but I was the only person working on it and in the end just gave up as progress was too slow and became out of date every time new games were released. I don't know who you are expecting will take on the work of maintaining all these new lists you are proposing? I'm sure you are aware that Wikipedia is run by volunteers who (mostly) are not doing this full time. Kidburla (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @KidburlaKidburla,
    1. I did not join this thread to make demands. I trying to help but before I do anything I want to be sure that what I am doing is not going to undone due to a lack of consensus.
    2. I am aware that over the last decade plus console game sales have flipped from 80% physical to 80% digital. A time will come when a majority of systems go digital only. As that is the trend we are heading toward we need to develop methods for cataloging and organizing records. The purpose of such a system is to track the development and IP history of the games.
    3. I get the impression that what I currently hope to gain from this exercise has been confused with what I think the goal of organizing the information should be. My intentions are twofold: (a) de-clutter and (b) create a system whereby the cataloging of titles results in convenient cross-referenced bundles based on the development and IP history of the games. The bundles, like the four existing bundles (Arcade, Sega, etc.), will document the development and IP history of the games. Thus, compartmentalizing based on the provenience, source, and format of the games best serves the function of documenting the history of the Switch system and, more importantly, this history of the games developed for the system and the history of the games ported to the system.
    4. I understand that many digital games come and go and will be forgotten before they are documented on this or any other such online open community encyclopedia. I think that a notably incomplete list of games of unclear provenience should be a separate list. Odds are highly in favor of original, quality games getting notable recognition and ports to other systems. Once more is known about a game, it should be moved from the data dump list to one of the lists that document the provenience, source, and format of the games (i.e., the development and IP history of the game).
    5. I know that most of the sources I mentioned are not sufficient for the purposes of maintaining this page and the existing and proposed sub-pages. I believe, however, that like Wikipedia itself these sources are a good jumping off point for determining how to approach further research on the the games. Once you know a physical copy is out there, for example, research can be done to verify the game was developed to be played via Switch cartridge.
    6. I work and I am studying to sit for the MBE in the spring of 2023. I also have limited experience in writing Wiki scripts. I am still very willing fill much of my free time organizing all of the information in the manner I am suggesting. I will organize the information first onto Excel sheets. I am taking a break from playing games while I study for the bar but I will need something to do to satisfy my need to do repetitive busy work. Once I have completed the work I have set out to do, I can share the information with all of you. Providing, of course, all of you are willing to work with me to de-clutter and bundle the games based on the provenience, source, and format of the games (i.e., the development and IP history of the games). 70.39.20.33 (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, while using this computer I am also 70.39.20.33. I keep getting logged out. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 13:21, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't want to come off as mean or dismissive, but I also don't want you to waste your time, as you're putting considerable time and effort into these replies. There is zero chance of a physical release designation or list being created. -- ferret (talk) 13:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Did you read what I wrote at all or are you being dismissive? Lol.
    If you want to object to a physical copy designation, that is your prerogative. I am not proposing a physical cartridge designation as the objective.
    This is an encyclopedia. It is not a forum for undifferentiated data dumping. I want to de-clutter, categorize, and organize based on the development and IP history of the games. 70.39.20.33 (talk) 14:33, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You may want to set up a Fandom/Gamepedia site then, as that's not really the purpose of Wikipedia to support such collector endeavours. Wikipedia has been continually consolidating and merging these lists, and you are proposing the opposite. That runs against the broader projects consensus on this subject and isn't going to happen. WP:NOTCATALOGUE for more information, which is a policy. -- ferret (talk) 14:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia is not a simple list. It is not an indiscriminate collection of information. It is not a democracy nor is it a bureaucracy. The link you shared is a catalogue of what Wikipedia is not. What is Wikipedia? Wikipedia is a catalogue of information. This page in its current form is a simple list and an indiscriminate collection of information. I have shared some ideas on how to organize the information based on the development and IP history of the games. I wish to contribute to making the page a proper catalogue of information. I believe that this information is the most important for understanding what we are talking about when we talk about games on the Nintendo Switch.
    You seem to have developed a narrow and inflexible view of what my intentions are. Because I collect retro cartridges and have an amateur understanding of the development and IP history of video games does not equate that there is some way I could manipulate the information on this page to promote the collection of video games that are over 20 years old.
    Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and it is for the everyone in the world. Consensus is not the wants and desires of one person. I plea for others read all of what I have written and to discuss what I have said. I am not here to start arguments with individuals who are going to tell me what is not going to happen because that individual has decided against it. I want to contribute but I don't want to argue with individuals who claim a degree of possession over the contents and administration of the page. MCMichaelComstock (talk) 17:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry, but are you like, a handful of edits into your Wikipedia editing career? Please spend some time familiarizing yourself with how the website functions before going about lecturing regulars about what Wikipedia is or isn't. Slow down and learn basic editing before you propose these massive changes. Sergecross73 msg me 17:54, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MCMichaelComstock:

  1. I did read everything you have said and tried to respond to you in detail, but unfortunately I feel you are making the same points again and again without really taking into account the rebuttals. I can understand why ferret has said that because ultimately whether we continue the discussion or not, the outcome is the same and he was trying to avoid a lot more time being wasted. The reasons we will always reach that outcome are the same reasons mentioned above, (a) there is no way to consistently find reliable sources for physical releases, (b) there is nothing to be gained from splitting the list in terms of Wikipedia's goals
  2. What you are calling decluttering is totally different from how I understand it or what I was referring to. I was simply referring to the fact that when we included things like Arcade Archives into the main list, there were a huge number of games starting with A that were just called "Arcade Archives: xxx" which people had to scroll through. The same with G-Mode Archives and similar. To avoid that we split them into separate lists. There's no similar argument to be made for digital-only games.
  3. You are right to say that "Consensus is not the wants and desires of one person" but bear in mind that ferret, Sergecross73 and myself are pretty much aligned on this, so I don't understand why you think it's just one person or keep referring to "individuals"
  4. The list in its current form is not an indiscriminate collection of information; in fact there are a number of games which couldn't be included because we couldn't demonstrate they were notable enough to include. Also even if it was considered an indiscriminate collection, splitting it into multiple lists would not help that. Adding more criteria to reduce the scope of the information being catalogued would help, but has been infeasible as mentioned earlier
  5. I don't think Wikipedia needs to "develop new methods for cataloguing and organizing records" because this is not the purpose of Wikipedia. Also, the process of listing digital releases is not really that different from listing physical releases.
  6. There are many ways we could split the list into a complete and an incomplete list but it doesn't mean we should. I don't think splitting off a complete sublist has any intrinsic value, even if it may look better
  7. I gave four examples of games previously which have physical releases and I can't verify that, so I'm not sure why you are still making vague statements like "research can be done" seeming like that can solve the problem.
  8. If you want to satisfy your "need to do repetitive busy work", might I suggest the best approach would be to work on the existing list: to add missing games (with the correct sourcing) or to add verifiability/notability sources where they are missing. This would help to tackle the completeness and verifiability issues with the current list. This is what I personally worked on for quite some time and at the time got through 0-9, A and B but didn't get much further. Kidburla (talk) 01:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removing genres

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As per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 169#Remove genres columns for big lists of video games? should the genre column be removed? (It should help with page size.) Also does anyone know a quick way to remove the column, as it would be a nightmare to remove manually? Kidburla (talk) 12:41, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fully supported. It's easier to delete columns when using WP:VISUALEDITOR, though with an article this size it may be very laggy or crash. Sergecross73 msg me 12:56, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done - thanks for the tip. Kidburla (talk) 22:44, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I remember being shocked the first time I learned of it because, as you say, it's a nightmare to remove columns manually entry by entry. Sergecross73 msg me 22:47, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Remake

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Someone should add the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door remake. Stein256 (talk) 23:51, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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