Talk:List of nearest galaxies
|WikiProject Astronomy / Astronomical objects||(Rated List-class, Low-importance)|
- 1 New objects to take into account
- 2 Satellites?
- 3 Merge to Local Group
- 4 Distances
- 5 Status
- 6 LMC and SMC not satellites?
- 7 Milky Way Galaxy
- 8 mergefrom Milky Way's satellite galaxies
- 9 overhaul & rationale for length of list
- 10 Leo T & Virgo Stellar Stream
- 11 definition of galaxy?
- 12 Incongruous data
- 13 Line numbers
- 14 File:Ursa Minor Dwarf.jpg Nominated for Deletion
- 15 Mly
- 16 External links modified
New objects to take into account
I just read an article notes that several new dwarfs have been found in the southern hemisphere in the vicinity of the LMC: http://www.astronomy.com/news/2015/03/new-dwarf-galaxies-discovered-in-orbit-around-the-milky-way
And here is another article which reports that even more galaxies have been found on the other side of the milky way: http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/02/scientists-discover-hidden-galaxies-behind-the-milky-way
If someone has the time to go to the original papers and get the data, then this list will need updating. I guess that I'll do it if i get some time.
alexander110 00:06, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
From the page, Andromeda's satellite galaxies, there is are 5 new satellites.
- Andromeda XI
- Andromeda XII
- Andromeda XIII
- Tidal Steam Northeast
- Tidal Stream Southwest.
What does it mean that a galaxy is a satellite of another? Rmhermen 15:05, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
Merge to Local Group
I'm going to use distances from SEDS at  instead of the unsourced ones here unless an explanation or source is available in the individual article. I will preserve old values in comments; they can be reinstated if better information is found. Ardric47 02:41, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
- Please do not use data from SEDS. With a few exceptions, SEDS does not reference its sources of information. Their data appear to be highly inaccurate and misleading. George J. Bendo 17:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
LMC and SMC not satellites?
i recently read in this New Scientist article that the magellanic clouds may not be satellites, because they are moving too quickly. perhaps the comments in the list should reflect this? Mlm42 09:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- After years of research, Karachentsev (2005) indicated that the LMC and SMC are gravitationally bound. The results in the New Scientist article are newer, but the reference is not a peer-reviewd journal aritcle. A corresponding peer-reviewed journal article should be found for this information. Moreover, even if this has been published, it should still be confirmed. From my experience, some of these assessments about the dynamics of objects near the Milky Way can be quite tricky. Ultimately, the discussion would be so lengthy that it could take up too much space. (Writing Wikipedia articles by press release generally does not work well.) Dr. Submillimeter 09:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- but shouldn't the articles somehow reflect the fact that it isn't proven that they are satellite galaxies? if the assessments of the dynamics are tricky, that tells me that claims regarding when things are or aren't gravitationally bound are probably more conjecture-with-some-evidence than generally-accepted-fact.. i don't know much about it, but i would prefer not to have the wool pulled over my eyes! :) Mlm42 15:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
- This is beyond the scope of this list. I suggest discussing the topic at Large Magellanic Cloud and Small Magellanic Cloud. Remove the reference to the LMC and SMC as "satellite galaxies" if it really bothers you (although they probably are satellite galaxies). Dr. Submillimeter 07:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Milky Way Galaxy
Would it not be correct that the Milky Way Galaxy is a satellite of the Milky Way? If yes then I suggest that said information is added to the notes like all the other Milky Way dwarfs. FrunkSpace (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- Milky Way = Milky Way Galaxy = our galaxy. The same thing cannot be the satellite itself. — Chesnok (talk) 19:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
mergefrom Milky Way's satellite galaxies
overhaul & rationale for length of list
I have overhauled this list to include more data (such as galaxy type & magnitude) and include some better references. Still need to fill it all in but have done the first 30 or so where data is available. I'm working to a 5mpc limit as that includes a few significant nearby galaxies outside the local group - eg centaurus A. It is also what Karachentsev used for his catalogue of galaxies (see reflist) - itself based I think on what is the distance limit of measurements that can be made with reasonable accuracy. I've reworked the referencing list and system quite a bit actually. Welcome to all suggestions & comments. Alexander110 (talk) 07:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- I did the previous overhaul (November 2006), so it's my table you're changing. (Dramatic pause.) Fine, go ahead, and have fun finding the photos.
- I do have a suggestion, Personally, I think that the numbering scheme (eg: "47" followed by two "=47"s) is kind of ugly. Instead of "=47" try something like — or • or ♦ instead.
- By the way, I always thought it would be nice to have a column listing date-of-discovery. Obviously I didn't do it myself, but if you're a glutton for work ...
- Thanks! hope you like the result so far.. not all the galaxies have photos that i've been able to find, but what photos there are do sparkle up the list i think. Was inspired by the list of spiral galaxies and list of nearest stars. There is still lots more work to do - plenty of galaxies missing outside the local group for a start. I'm also thinking now that a 5mpc limit is perhaps a bit ambitious. As for the numbering of the list - it is a bit shoddy and i have stopped it after about 60 for now. Use of something other than = sign is a good idea, and i think the discovery date would be useful - it would make the point that some of the closest galaxies are the most recently found. I've worked on the referencing but there is still more to do there as well. Alexander110 (talk) 06:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I've just added about 25 new galaxies within 3.6mpc to the list and clipped the end of the list off. It should be complete (on 2004 data) to this point. Still more to do - some of the older distance references probably need updating which will change the order again. Below is the bit I chopped off. Alexander110 (talk) 16:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Rationale for list end
I stopped just before 3.6 Mpc as Karachentsev 2004 lists about a dozen at this distance and many more between 4-5Mpc. 3.6 mpc takes in the nearer members of nearby groups - a selection from the sculptor, M81 group, M94 group, Centaurus A and Maffei groups. I have used the distance of NGC 4945 as the line in the sand. If we made the cut off nearer than this, the list would become dominated by local group members - and so less interesting in my opinion (and duplicating the list at Local group. It could be further out than this but the length would increase very rapidly.. of course if someone wants to do the work then go right ahead...alexander110 03:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Leo T & Virgo Stellar Stream
- I have added this to the list and removed Virgo Stellar Stream as it seems there are now a matrix of stellar streams being discovered around our galaxy (see http://www.sdss.org/news/releases/20080816.segue_final.html ) and it's probably debatable whether they can be classed as galaxies in their own right.Alexander110 (talk) 04:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- here is the removed entry:
|3||Virgo Stellar Stream||dSph
|0.030||0.009||?||?||Local Group||In process of merging with Milky Way|
definition of galaxy?
Recently discovered local group galaxies may be added. More complete lists of local group galaxies can be found here:
Also in this file there is p. 9 an updated list of MW satellites, and p.11 an updated list of Andromeda satellites.
But a question troubles me : why list very faint dwarf satellite galaxies such as Boötes Dwarf, with apparent magnitude 13,1 and absolute magnitude -5,8 at 197 kly from here, and not much brighter globular clusters such as NGC 2419 at 275 kly from here, that, depending on sources, is said to be of apparent magnitude 9 or 10,4, and absolute magnitude -9,5 or -11 (I can't tell which is true) ? Indeed the difference between a small galaxy and a big globular cluster may not be always clear.
Also, some updates on distances would be needed. But it seems sometimes hard to find good and recent references. For example, for NGC 147, the distance in this list differs from the one presented in its own article, which has its own reasons based on averaging of references. It seems hard to decide which option is best, however it looks weird to keep both as such, as they are supposed to answer the same question. (I'll do a few other modifs myself later). --Spoirier (talk) 01:22, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
- i suppose it would open a can of worms to start including globular clusters in this list even though they may indeed be brighter than the sorts of dwarf galaxies that are showing up in great numbers near to the milky way. I propose that unless something has 'galaxy' in its name it shouldn't be on this list -- the people who sort out naming conventions can then have the argument over what qualifies. i also propose that in order to combat this list becoming bloated with faint dwarfs which are no doubt going to continue to be found in vast quantities there could be some absolute magnitude cut-off point to qualify inclusion, somewhere between -10 M (which would exclude a lot of currently listed dwarfs) or -5 M (which would only exclude the faintest of dwarfs). A decision should be made before someone goes to the effort of adding all the newly discovered tiny dwarfs to this list (although do we even have M for these?).
- as for distances, when i was updating this list last year i relied heavily on the distances published in recent papers on local groups by Karachentsev et al -- thanks spoirier for updating these based on new hubble measurements etc (although the numbering needs fixing now). If someone has felt the need to do a more sophisticated calculation already on the distance over on the individual galaxy page, and it is accepted there, it should be used here too for consistency -- and vice versa. Someone just needs to go about and cross reference everything.
- oh and i've let UGC 8638 (VV 133) drop off the list now as the new distance is about a trillion bizillion miles further than before. .
- Something that has galaxy in its name? That's highly unreasonable, since only the Milky Way Galaxy has "Galaxy" in its name. Everything else is a catalog designation, like M31 or M33. Even if you're referring to article names, one would hardly think that the Magellanic Clouds should be missing from the list.
- This is a list of nearest galaxies, a magnitude cut-off is also unreasonable. If that were the case, many LSB galaxies have brighter magnitudes than high surface brightness galaxies, but are harder to see, so that defeats the purpose of using magnitude as a cut-off if you're about visual appearance. And many notable nearby galaxies aren't bright, like the dimmest dwarf known, or the lowest surface brightness galaxy, or candidate dark galaxies, or the dwarf spheroidals with the highest known ratio of dark matter to normal matter...
- Currently, the list is distance limited, which is a reasonable way to define "nearest", another way, somewhat more arbitrary is a numerical count cut-off, like "1000 nearest galaxies" would be a reasonable sized list, and though 1000 is arbitrary, it is a highly used limit, so is a normal limit.
- This article isn't all that big in the first place, I see no need to start reducing it at this time. Many lists on Wikipedia are much much larger.
- I will note that we have a list of nearest bright stars, an equivalent list for Alexander110's concerns would work fine.
- I guess i was thinking that 'galaxy' might have some naming convention like 'planet' - but apparently not. The list of galaxies has this to say: "There is no universal naming convention for galaxies, as they are mostly catalogued before it is established whether the object is or isn't a galaxy. Mostly they are identified by their celestial coordinates together with the name of the observing project (HUDF, SDSS, 3C, CFHQS, NGC/IC, etc.)". alexander110
- Globular clusters and what not should not be on the list, this is a list of galaxies, not a list of whatever it may be. That sounds like a list of extragalactic deep sky targets for amateur astronomy, which is not what this list is meant to be. If you want globulars, then look at the List of globular clusters. If it's not classified as a galaxy, it definitely should not be on a list of galaxies. (proviso given to "candidate galaxies" like Omega Centauri that may be the hearts of dwarf galaxies, and not globulars.) If you want a list like that, you should make a new list. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
The article claims that Leo A (Leo III, DDO 69) is a satellite of the Milkyway. It also claims that Leo A (Leo III, DDO 69) is further away than most Andromeda and most of it's satellite galaxies. This data is incongruous. No, I'm not making the claim that Leo A would be a satellite of Andromeda, it's obviously not in even in the vicinity of Andromeda. Andromeda is in the Andromeda constellation hence it's name. Leo A is likewise in the Leo constellation. But it still doesn't make much sense that Milkyway can have a satellite further out than the nearest non-satellite galaxy. That would be like saying that the sun has a red dwarf companion that's further out than the nearest main sequence star. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 13:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody has quite totally messed the line numbers, or perhaps the distances have changed? Mostly the galaxies are in right order except the NGC 404 at 9.98 Mly, which should be about ten places higher. I assume the "—" means it has the same rank as above galaxy. Well then for example rank 30 and two below marked "—", all of those have different distancies shown (2.5, 2.51 and 2.52). And what in earth has happened around 51-61? The order is 51, 53, —, 52, 57, —, 59, 60, 61 and 58, then a 58 few rows below, and another 58 maybe 20 rows below??? And what the stars at two rows mean? Shouldn't they also have a ranking since they are on the list? I don't have any experience with tables, so won't mess those more. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Rank of Large Magellanic Cloud
- And I just noticed even Andromeda Galaxy does not have a rank. The list is not very good. If I counted right, there 128 entries. Of those, 96 have a rank and 26 have a dash (–).
- What is the point of being on the list, if no rank is given? At least an explanation is required. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
- The numbering keeps getting all mussed up because every time a new galaxy is discovered and added to the list, the whole list from there down needs to be renumbered. I wish there was some automated option. Please feel free to correct the numbering, there is nothing spooky about it, it just takes a little time. alexander110 02:33, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
File:Ursa Minor Dwarf.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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Someone might be confused by Mly linking to Light year article and not realize that it means million light years.. I thing that this should be made more clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 10:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
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- Cite error: The named reference
Karachentsev2002was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
- Based on calculations made on the page NGC 5102
- Cite error: The named reference
Karachentsev2004was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
- Cite error: The named reference
Karachentsev2003was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
- Cite error: The named reference
NASAIPACwas invoked but never defined (see the help page).
- J. L. Tonry, 2001The SBF Survey of Galaxy Distances. IV. SBF Magnitudes, Colors, and Distances
- Cite error: The named reference
Karachentsev2002bwas invoked but never defined (see the help page).