Talk:Mór Ní Thuathail

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Was she King Diarmait's first or second wife?[edit]

"Mór Ní Tuathail (c. 1114–1191) was a Queen-consort of Leinster as the first wife of King Diarmait Mac Murchada. Under Brehon Law, Irish men were allowed more than one wife. King Dermot's second wife was Sadhbh Ní Fhaolain."

"Sometime about 1140 in Loch Garman, County Wexford, Mór was married to King Diarmait Mac Murchada of Leinster as his second wife, making her Queen-consort of Leinster. His first wife was Sadhbh Ní Fhaolain."

--79.225.4.54 (talk) 13:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC) Rhonda[reply]

Incorrect citation of Charles Cawley[edit]

The article uses Charles Cawley's work from the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy but fundamentally mischaracterizes it. Here is the actual section where Mor appears. Cawley says there are no sources for her parents and lists only two of the three children as hers, the other belonging to an "unknown mistress". I do not know if Cawley is correct or the Wikipedia writer is. What I do know is their stories don't match.

Here is Cawley's entry via http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#AoifeEvaMRichardPembroke.

DIARMAIT (-Fermanagh 1 May 1171). King of Leinster. The Annales Cambriæ record that "Diermit rex filius Murcath" was expelled from Ireland by his people and went to the English king, recording in later passages that he returned to Ireland and built "castellum Carrec iuxta Wisefordiam" in 1170, and died in 1172[693]. "Diarmicius Rex Lageniensium" donated "terram…Balidubgaill" to All Saints Dublin by undated charter witnessed by "…Enna filio meo…"[694]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that Henry II King of England arrived in Ireland in 1171, went to Dublin where he received “the kingship of Leinster and of the men of Meath, Brefne, Oriel and Ulster”[695]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records the death "apud Fernas circa kal Mai" of "Dermitius Murchardi filius" [in 1171][696]. m [MOR, daughter of ---]. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. Mistress: (1152) DERBFORGAILL, wife of TIERNAN O'Rourke King of Breifny, daughter of MURCHAD O'Malaghlin King of Meath & his wife ---. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Dermitius…Murchardi filius Langeniensium princeps" eloped with "Ororicio…Medensium rege…uxor ipsius Omachlachelini filia" [in 1152][697]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmait Mac Murchada king of Leinster forcibly carried off out of Meath the wife of Húa Ruairc…Derb-forgaill daughter of Murchad with her wealth” in 1152, adding in a later passage that she “came again to Húa Ruairc by flight from Leinster” in 1153[698]. Diarmait & his wife had two children:

i) AOIFE [Eva] (-after 1189). The Annales Cambriæ record that "Ricardus comes de Striguil" invaded Ireland in 1171 and married "filiam Diermit regis"[699]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records the marriage of "filia…Dermitii, Eva" and Earl Richard[700]. She was styled Countess of Ireland in 1185, but Countess of Strigoil in 1186[701]. m (Waterford [26 Aug 1171]) RICHARD de Clare "Strongbow" Earl of Pembroke, son of GILBERT de Clare "Strongbow" Earl of Pembroke & his wife Isabel de Beaumont ([1130]-Dublin 20 Apr 1176, bur Dublin, Holy Trinity). In [1168] he promised Dermot King of Leinster to help him recover his kingdom in return for the hand of his daughter and eventual succession to the crown. He landed near Waterford 23 Aug 1170, and marched to Dublin. He acceded to the demand of King Henry II to surrender his Irish conquests to him and was granted Leinster in fee[702].

ii) URLACHAN . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m DONOUGH [Donald] More King of Thomond, son of TADHG King of Thomond & his wife --- (-1194).

Dermot had three illegitimate children by unknown mistresses:

iii) ENNA (-1168 or after). "Diarmicius Rex Lageniensium" donated "terram…Balidubgaill" to All Saints Dublin by undated charter witnessed by "…Enna filio meo…"[703]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Ossiriæ princeps Duvenaldus" [Dounchad [Donough] Lord of Ossory] blinded "Dermitio…filium eiusdem primogenitum"[704]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Enna Mac Murchada crownprince of Leinster” was blinded in 1168 by “Donnchad Mac Gilla Pátraic king of Ossory”[705].

iv) CONNOR (-1170). The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Dermitio" gave "filium suum Chuchurum" as hostage to Roderic of Connaught [in 1169][706]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that Roderic killed Dermot's son [in 1170][707].

v) DOMNALL Caemanach (-killed 1175). The Annals of Ulster record the death in 1175 of "Domnall Caemanach son of Diarmaid Mac Murchadha king of Leinster…[slain]”[708]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prydonia (talk • contribs) 23:23, 21 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]