Talk:Malolos

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<Cityname> <City>[edit]

There is a discussion regarding the removal of the word "city" from the article titles of Philippine cities. This may imminently affect the article name for Malolos. For city names which are not unique, disambiguation alternatives are also being presented. Formal request for page move may follow after a reasonable time of discussion. If you wish to participate, please post your comments here. --JinJian (talk) 04:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kabankalan City which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 07:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

File:Santisima Trinidad de Mayor.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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Malolos was a Chinese city???[edit]

But it is not IN China! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.155.134.43 (talk) 05:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

No. Malolos was never a Chinese city since time immemorial. Perhaps you were referring to the name Li-Han, the ancient name of Malolos during the 12th century recorded under the accounts of Chao Ju Kua's Chu Fan Chi (Zhu Fan Zhi). Under several accounts, Li-Han then was a part of the Kingdom of Ma-i (A sinified state with several settlements along the coasts of Southwestern Luzon and Mindoro Island). Since both countries were trading then, it is considered that there was a substantive amount of Chinese influence present in Ma-i. But nevertheless, Ma-i was a sovereign state separate and distinct from that of China. Therefore, Malolos was never a Chinese city.
--ERAMnc (talk) 12:28, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
I'll concur with ERAMnc for the most part. But I'll also add that the Zhu Fan Zhi didn't actually say Li-Han then was a part of the Country of Ma-i; if I recall William Henry Scott's translation in his "Prehispanic Source Materials" book correctly, it says Lihan was "under the same category as", meaning "of the same sort of place as Ma-i." Apparently it's easy to misinterpret the translation. I know this is sorta peripheral to your discussion, but I just wanted to make sure this "Lihan was under Ma-i" misconception was adressed. :D Cheers. - Alternativity (talk) 16:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Alternativity Yes Li-Han was under Ma-i. There was a commentary by Go Bon Juan published at Volume 53, No. 1 of the Philippine Studies (2005) which on page 121 it is cited that Li-han, along with Pu-li-lu, Pai-p'u-yen, Li-kin-tung, San-su, and Liu-sin were places belonging to the kingdom of Ma-i cited from both Zaide and Scott. Cheers :D —ERAMnc 15:05, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Oh my. Okay, let me start off right away by saying I don't want to be argumentative; in fact I profoundly appreciate the citation. I've always been a fan of that particular article of Go Bon Juan's. So I guess all I'll do is share that there's a conflict between the assertions in Go Bon Juan's "Ma-i in Chinese Records" (2005) and Scott's "Prehistoric Source Materials" (1st Ed 1984; 2nd Ed 2000). (I'm afraid I no longer own any Zaide pieces, so I can't do a similar check of Zaide's works.)

As you said, p121 of Go's article (available online) says:

"The following places belong to this country: San-su [Three Islands], Pai-p'u-yen, P'u-li-lu, Li-lun-tung, Liu-Sin, and Li-han." (emphasis mine)

Whereas p68 of Scott (personal copy) says:

San-hsu, Pai-p'u-yen, P'u-li-lu, Li-yin-tung, Liu-Hsin, and Li-han, etc., are all the same sort of place as Ma-i. (emphasis mine)

Scott then indicates an endnote, which leads to Page 147 of the book which says:

The text says, not that these places belong to Ma-i, but that they are of Ma-i's shu, a word that means "type, class" as a noun, and "subordinate" as an adjective (e.g. shu kuo, "tributary state"), being used elsewhere in the Chu Fan Chih in these two senses.

Hm. I guess that really only shows how open to interpretation this all is? I have a great deal of respect for both these scholars' works, and have used both specific publications extensively in the past. Maybe I shouldn't be so hasty to dismiss the Lihan being under Mai. Will keep that Go in mind the next time this is brought up. Thanks for the heads up, ERAMnc and cheers! Hopefully someday soon some historiographer will address this discrepancy head-on and give us a definitive word on the translation. :D - Alternativity (talk) 09:51, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

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