Talk:Matt Santos

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Untitled[edit]

Could someone help me identify the actress that plays Matt Santos' wife?

Yeah; it's Teri Polo. http://westwing.bewarne.com --Baylink 21:20, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

congressman v. representative[edit]

Regarding the title congressman v. representative is similar to conversation v. protocol. In the case of Matt Santos, a fictional elected member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Texas, would in conversation be addressed as congressman. While in the Chamber of the House of Representatives or in a historical context, protocol would be used and addressed as Representative Matt Santos of Texas or in the AP style, Rep. Matt Santos (D-TX) which is the style C-SPAN uses.

So "Congressman" is a form of address, while "Representative" is a title. Got it. --Baylink 00:03, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1st Hispanic president?[edit]

Would Santos in fact be the first Hispanic president? Martin Sheen is in really life Hispanic. Is it clear whether Bartlet is or isn't? Theshibboleth 03:52, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Bartlet is a New Hampshire native whose ancestors signed the Declaration of Independence. No mention of his racial background has been made. I am sure that TWW would have made a comment about it, if he were considered Hispanic for the show - Scm83x 04:15, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
By "Hispanic", most people seem to mean the individuals who (like myself) have a mixed ethnicity derived from the mixture of the Spanish conquistadores, the native population of the Americas, and the Africans enslaved here. As far as I'm aware, Martin Sheen is of solely Spaniard stock, which makes him purely caucasian, so he doesn't fit the model most people have in mind when they say "Hispanic".--RicardoC 10:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Your interpretation about the meaning of "Hispanic" is not necessarily always true. There are e.g. many Argentineans in the US who are of pure European stock (maybe not even Spanish) and nonetheless call themselves "Hispanic" (at least to apply for college scholarships or things of that sort). In fact, I met a guy in college who was born in Portugal (in Europe, that is !) and who could not speak any Spanish at all, but who nonetheless qualified for a scholarship for "Hispanic students". Another Portuguese-speaking colleague of mine with mixed Italian/Portuguese ancestry, born in southern Brazil and raised in Vienna, Austria (his father worked for the IAEA), also had a similar scholarship. 161.24.19.82 14:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
"Hispanic", in its general usage - at least where I live, in the Southwestern United States, where its usage is most prevalent - refers to those of Mexican or Latin American descent. However, it has recently fallen out of favor as a racial term, with its representative demographic now split between "Mexican" - those from Mexico - "Latino" - those from Latin America - and "Chicano" - those of mixed descent. Martin Sheen is none of those three - his father was from Spain, his mother from Ireland. While Spain does share its language with the Mexican and Latin American cultures, it is racially distinctive, with most Spaniards being Caucasian. By this line of reasoning, it is reasonable to assume that Matt Santos is the first Hispanic President (although, as he himself said several times, his family had been living in Texas for several generations, making him, really, an American President).

Biography is copyvio[edit]

Biography section is lifted word-for-word from here. This likely copyvio will be reverted unless some justification for keeping it is given. -Scm83x 17:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I removed the Biography section. David Björklund 08:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I think the Biography section should be restored and merged with the existing article. --Blue387 06:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree. The biography was intended for promotional purposes. I'll restore. -Scm83x 06:30, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Information that was created for promotional purposes still has copyright! From http://www.nbc.com/nbc/footer/Privacy_Policy2.shtml:"You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, publicly display, prepare derivative works based on, or distribute in any way any material from the Service" (the service being nbc.com). This clearly states that we cannot use the Biography-information. David Björklund 09:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
D'oh! Thanks for keeping me honest!! I'll do the same thing on the Vinick page.-Scm83x 09:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Vincente???[edit]

Is this really the correct spelling of his middle name? I know that amongst Spanish-speaking families, the name Vicente (with no n, like Vicente Fox) is used.--Folksong 02:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

At the Democratic National Convention, President Bartlet introduced Santos as "Matthew Vincente Santos". It would appear that was his middle name. --Blue387 19:46, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe the name "Vincente" is used in Italian (cf. "Vincent" in French), whereas "Vicente" is the usual form in Spanish and Portuguese. 200.177.17.145 00:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Off the top of my head, the video does say President Matthew Vincente Santos User:Itfc+canes=me Talk Sign me! Its good to be back! 15:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Move the spoiler warning up?[edit]

I think either the spoiler warning needs moving to the very top of the page, or the sentance "As of April 2006, he is also the President-elect of the United States, having narrowly defeated Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 election." needs moving below the spoiler warning. As most of the last season is dedicated to the presidential election, I think the outcome is a pretty big spoiler. I was slightly peeved to have seen the outcome with no warning, as I am currently only part way through the last season. Timb0h 16:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I was going to add a similar comment. I think the spoiler should not be included in the introductory text and instead he should be referred to only as a candidate and save the main detail for later. Horkana (Page has changed and is much improved. I do not know what the rules are on this but this section on the Talk page could probably be deleted now unless there is some rule about preserving old discussions Horkana)

Similarities to Kerry[edit]

I don't think enough similarities are present to be able to say Santos is much more similar to Kerry than many other democrats. The show didn't show Santos stressing military background the way Kerry did, and his most stressed characteristic- hispanic- is of course different, he's also from not just a different background not just in terms of specifics but also generally (social class). The policy bullet points aren't particularly unique for a democrat. If you want it back in I'll relent.

  • the speech he delivered in a church following the shooting of a black youth by an Hispanic officer was clearly modelled on Robert Kennedy's speech in Indiana following the assassination of Martin Luther King - thus it should be said that Santos is based on a wide range of historical figures Ben Payton
  • In "Message of the Week" Santos said in an interview (regarding CAFTA) "I voted for it before I voted against it." I think that was a clear reference to Kerry's Iraq vote. However I think its just a reference and I agree with comments above. --Mark83 12:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree I dont think Santos was based on any actual person, but bits of many realife candidates, including Kerry, Hilary Clinton and even Barack Obama now.

Attorney General[edit]

Where did someone get OLIVER BABISH (The White House Chief Counsel who guided the Bartlet administration through revealing the MS story) as Santos' AG? Josh was directly quoted as saying "You like Berryhill? Great, we have an Attorney General." I think (since obviously we don't see Senate confirmations for anyone) that if we're going to list the position Berryhill is the guy to put in it. Staxringold 15:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there was reference to Babish as a potential Attorney General. In "Transition", if memory serves. The bit about Berryhill was from "Welcome to Wherever You Are", when Josh was telling Santos that 8 years ago Bartlet had 5 minutes with Berryhill, and made him Secretary of State based on that short interview. As for the Santos administration box, all due respect, but it's ridiculous at the moment. Eric Baker isn't VP, as we have no idea if he got confirmed. Berryhill as Attorney General is pure speculation, as is Ainsley Hayes as White House counsel. Bram's job wasn't confirmed, but being in Sam's old office, he couldn't be Personal Aide to the President. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Penguin22 (talkcontribs) 17:15, 15 May 2006
Being the person who started the Administration box, I think it's a good idea, but by no means do I think that it should remain static. You're right--Baker still needed to go through the confirmation process, and Ainsley only inquired about the job. But given the little time and details we are given, we're going to have to speculate a bit. However, this doesn't mean that the speculation should be wild; as the disclaimer notes, every person on the list should have been offerred the job at the least or outright accepted it.
If you have any modifications, they by all means go for it. But I like the idea of tracking who is who in the new administration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CardinalWraith (talkcontribs) 19:39, 15 May 2006
The actual lines in "Welcome to Wherever You Are" are:
JOSH: You like Goodwin and McNally?
SANTOS: It's not like I had a whole lot of time with McNally.
JOSH: Berryhill had five minutes eight years ago. Do you like her [McNally]?
SANTOS: Yeah.
JOSH: And Goodwin?
SANTOS: Yeah
JOSH: Great, we got an Attorney General and a Secretary of State.
So, in terms of where they were then, Goodwin would have been Attorney General and McNally Secretary of State. But later epiodes reflect different choices. Berryhill doesn't figure and is only mentioned in reference to how Bartlet dealt with preparing for government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.183.132 (talkcontribs) 10:20, 2 September 2006

Fair use rationale for Image:Santosannouncement.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Air Force Academy or Naval Academy[edit]

I've just watched 2162 votes followed by The Ticket and The Mommy Problem. In 2162 votes just before Santos goes on stage to give his speech the announcer clearly states he is a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy whereas in The Mommy Problem, Louise Thornton clearly states he attended Annapolis which I believe is the United States Naval Academy. Being Scottish I may not understand the intricacies of the United States Armed Forces but as I understood it Marine officers do attend the Naval Academy. Do marine pilots also have to attend the air force academy or is this just one of those oversights that occur in TV programs. (Nimmo27 (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC))


Based on Obama?[edit]

It seems unrealistic that the character Matt Santos was based on Barack Obama considering when the character was written Barack Obama wasn't even a United States Senator. This just seems fairly unlikely.--74.137.229.112 (talk) 04:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree, the only sources I've seen claiming Santos is modeled after Obama are from AFTER the fact (2008 or later) and the character was created in 2005. Sure Obama gave a nice speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention but I doubt anyone really thought he was a Presidential contender, at least not so soon. It's easy to claim Santos is based on Obama after the fact, but are there any sources from the time the character was actually created/aired?70.92.104.171 (talk) 02:45, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Yes it does seem unlikely, which is why it's supported by two excellent sources; I'd recommend that you read those. Cheers, onebravemonkey 09:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
They're from AFTER the fact though. You know, hindsight's 20/20? I wouldn't say they're excellent sources unless they are from the time the Santos character was created/aired (2005-06).70.92.104.171 (talk) 02:45, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
The IMDB Section suggests that the character first appeared in November 2004 with more regular appearances after that. The wikipedia article on the United States Senate career of Barack Obama states that he was elected to that office in January 2005. I would be willing to trust the sources on the characters article page which suggest that he was based on Obama, even if it's not overt when the character first appears. Unfortunately both my links would be considered unsuitable as article sources Badanagram (attempt) 06:11, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
All the more reason I'm very skeptical about whether the character was REALLY based on Obama. Again "after the fact" sources don't really count. It's easy to claim after the fact that Santos was based on Obama from 2008 onward, but when the show/episodes with the character was actually made/aired (2004-05ish?) did they really at the time base it on Obama (at the time he gave a nice 2004 DNC speech but I don't think anyone seriously thought he was a serious Presidential contender so soon)? 70.92.104.171 (talk) 06:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Predecessors and successors[edit]

Is it ever stated in any episodes who Santos' predecessors and sucessors were, both as mayor and as congressman? Or is this Wikipedia-inspired creativity? --Hnsampat (talk) 21:11, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

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Infobox[edit]

I think the "President" infobox should be replaced with the "character" infobox (cf. Josiah Bartlet). Skiasaurus (skē’ ə sôr’ əs) 20:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I've modified the infobox to fit Santos; you can find it here. The only field I can't fill in is "family," which I've left blank. Skiasaurus (skē’ ə sôr’ əs) 21:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Since no one has dissented, I am replacing the infobox. Skiasaurus (skē’ ə sôr’ əs) 02:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

in-universe style?[edit]

I don't understand the "primarily in-universe style" label at the top. Is it "in-universe" to describe Santos as a Democratic US Representative when such a thing really does exist? The West Wing uses the same political jargon that is used in the real world, so how is it "in-universe"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Web wonder (talkcontribs) 15:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

It's "in-universe" for several reasons. First, it's written in past tense instead of present tense. By writing it in past tense, it's treating the fictional character like a real person. We need to rewrite the article in literary present tense. But, more than that, the article is strictly focusing on the plot of the episodes in which Santos plays a part. It doesn't contain any information outside the plot of the series, such as information about how the character was developed and cast, outside character analysis cited in third-party reliable sources, etc. --Hnsampat (talk) 17:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

new picture[edit]

he looks so weird in the current one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.137.215 (talk) 00:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

"Presidential Cabinet"[edit]

There is a table listing members of Santos' cabinet. Fair enough, but where have all these dates come from? How do we know Santos serves a second term? How do we know Josh is only around for the first term? Who replaced him?

Is there an official word-of-God source that confirms what happened after the series ended, or has somebody completely made this up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.29.119.128 (talk) 00:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)