Talk:Max Immelmann

WE Johns

Capt W E Johns refers to an Immelmann turn in the Biggles series. In it the pilot comes back at Biggles "upside down" which suggests a different Immelmann turn in which the machine is not righted but the pilot attacks his opponent upside down. (unsigned comment)

Capt W E Johns was a WWI pilot, although NOT a fighter pilot like Biggles, and the "WWI" Biggles stories are generally surprisingly accurate considering they were never intended to be historical - but just yarns for teenage boys. They DO contain a few massive "howlers", however. I suspect Johns knew nothing whatever about the famous turn except for its name - although it may have been another way of describing any "tricky turn". --Soundofmusicals (talk) 06:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Death

I've revised some of the information about him. The article failed to previously mention that he met No. 25 Squadron on two separate occasions the day he was shot down, and that he'd scored two victories from them that day upon his death. Furthermore, details about the recovery of his body have been added, several more facts about his first and second encounters with the British that fateful day have been added, and I've posted a source on The Aerodrome[1] to confirm these facts.

65.255.147.8 (talk) 00:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

References

There are some citations within the article which refer to a source 'Thompson' - can anyone help with giving fuller details as to this source, which can then be added to the 'References' section. Thanks. Scoop100 (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

what happened to the dog?

Did his dog Tyra die with him? 93.219.159.251 (talk) 10:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I think we can safely assume NO - no room for a big dog like that in a fighter cockpit! As for what happened to the dog, I don't think it has been recorded (prove me wrong, someone). We DO know what happened to the Red Baron's dog - a friend adopted it and it eventually died of old age many years later (or so we're told). --Soundofmusicals (talk) 14:47, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

For whom was the Blue Max named?

Hello, all,

I rather doubt the Blue Max was named after Immelmann. I have found other sources (which I can't lay hands on at this moment) that give other origins for the Blue Max nickname. At any rate, the source given does not seem to be the most reliable available. I suggest either further research and/or dropping the factoid as insignificant.

Georgejdorner (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Agree it needs referencing - BUT have absolutely no reason, personally, to doubt that the German (air force) slang name for the medal DOES come from its award to "our" Max. The idea of a junior officer receiving this particular award was initially pretty startling, in fact a bit of a PR (propaganda) coup. Everyone (including Max himself - who quipped that he was now "God Almighty") thought it was a great joke at first. If we're going to keep alive such obvious legendary cow manure as the fair maiden pulling Albert Ball from the wreckage then this all seems a bit silly, to be honest. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 20:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

---

Hello, som,

I don't mind sounding a bit silly in the cause of accuracy...it seems as though you have access to a better source than the original editor, what with quoting Immelmann, and all.

In the back of my Yankee mind (which has an insufficient store of European history), I thought I recalled an Emperor Maxmilian for whom the medal could have been nicknamed...at any rate, let's nail this factoid down one way or another. And, as in every case, including Ball, let's cite the most reliable source available without reference to assertions that may be taken as the dreaded Original Research.

As always, a pleasure to hear from you.

Georgejdorner (talk) 16:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Georgie Porgie!

(No pudding and pie for me!)

Having a look into this - of course "everyone knows" that the military order (at least in German WWI air force slang!!) was called the "Blue Max" after the first PILOT (and hitherto by far the most junior officer) ever admitted to the order. "Everyone knows" certainly doesn't equal the truth, naturally, but my research seems to indicate that:

• The nickname (as opposed to the order itself) does not predate WWI - nor, so far as I can find, its award to "our" Max. If you wanted to disprove its being named after him that, of course, would have been the clincher - I mean if they called it the Blue Max in (say) 1910 - bang, there goes the "urban myth". Have to say that I can't find anything of the kind - the name seems to date from 1916 or so, and to have originated in the German air force.
• Several people, some of them aviation historians have "doubts" - seemingly based on the idea that it "seems too facile"....BUT
• No one I can locate has any credible alternative idea. None at all. No "Emperor Maximillian" who might fit, to be honest (look them up!) "Maximum" is dopey, since it's actually far from the highest award (the Baron himself had some higher ones!!). NOT that "lack of credible alternative" necessarily PROVES anything, but does "seems too facile" prove anything? I trow NOT!!!
• My mind is wide open (honest Injun) but I suspect this urban myth is in fact perfectly true.

--Soundofmusicals (talk) 18:10, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

May I repeat - while we give credence to the legend about Ball and the fair young maiden I would want to see something pretty specific, and authoritative, to debunk this one - which fits human nature and makes a great deal of sense. Young pilots essentially making fun of Prussian pomposity, and their precious "higher officer's order" that they wouldn't have been admitted to (however gallant they were) but for the contingencies of PR. And what - "it seems too true to really be true" - is a better measure of historic truth than "somebody's aunt's sister-in-law thinks "'it's soooo romantic'"? Bah!!! Humbug!!! --Soundofmusicals (talk) 18:36, 1 March 2013 (UTC)