Talk:Max Miller (politician)

NPOV and Miller's past

@KidAd: if you feel that the original wording of the sentence stating that Miller was arrested and charged a number of times was not sufficiently neutral, please could you come up with something that is more neutral? The fact is that it happened, as referenced by an extremely reliable source (the Washington Post) and that a senior politician has an event like this in his past is unfortunately of relevance to how his political career will be seen in history. It is relevant to the question of why he was chosen, and it reflects US political history in recent years. We cannot simply suppress facts because they're uncomfortable. You're right it must be worded carefully, but it cannot simply be expunged. Can you, or any other editor, come up with something more constructive? Many thanks Elemimele (talk) 08:35, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I've had a go at putting the information back in, but in a much more restrained tone, and in his career section (which is really where it belonged in the first place). I have taken care that my text does not exceed the Washington Post's article in any way, and I have tried to make it clear that the newspaper's gripe was with multiple White House officials, Miller being just one of many. I have also tried to restore balance by including the fact that the cases against him were dismissed under a first-offender's program. I didn't emphasise that they were youthful indiscretions because the WP didn't say so, because it's already clear from the fact that one of the offences was underage drinking, and because the only bit the newspaper did give was a quote from Miller himself, saying he's no longer the person he was in his youth. I'm not sure whether we're supposed to quote interview bits. If any other editor (@KidAd or others?) thinks this is important, please do add it. I hope I've adhered to a neutral point of view while including information that is definitely relevant to Miller's role in the Trump administration. I have given only one of the original two references, because the second was almost a verbatim copy of the first, so I reckon someone just nicked the WP's story; quantity does not make for quality. Sorry if I've failed on keeping balance, I tried! Elemimele (talk) 12:39, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi @KidAd: I notice you removed the second sentence of what I put in, with the comment "that's unsourced". Here is the text I added, for reference:

The newspaper drew attention to biographical anomalies in Miller's LinkedIn page, and to his past arrests for assault, disorderly conduct, underage drinking, and resisting arrest, charges that were later dismissed as part of a program for first offenders.

For comparison, here are sentences taken from the Washington Post reference:

On his LinkedIn page, Miller said he attended Cleveland State University from 2007 to 2011. A Cleveland State spokesman confirmed that Miller, who previously attended other schools, graduated in 2013.

Miller described himself on his LinkedIn page as a Marine recruiter and said he worked for the presidential campaigns of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Trump. But after The Post raised questions about his biography, Miller removed the dates of his education and the claim that he was a Marine recruiter.

I believe this is an adequate indication that the Newspaper drew attention to biographical anomalies in his LinkedIn page. The Washington Post continued...

Miller has been charged by police in his home state of Ohio with multiple offenses. In 2007, he was charged with assault, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest after punching another male in the back of the head and running away from police, police records show. He pleaded no contest to two misdemeanor charges, and the case was later dismissed as part of a program for first offenders, court records show.

In 2009, he was charged with underage drinking, a case that also was later dismissed under a first offenders’ program.

I believe that is adequate to back up a claim that he has past arrests for assault, disorderly conduct, underage drinking, and resisting arrest, charges that were later dismissed as part of a program for first offenders. On this basis, I believe that what I wrote was sourced. I'm guessing that you were concerned that I failed to put a reference on the second sentence? If so, you're quite right, and I should have made it clear (sorry). I will put it back in now. Thanks for pointing out that possible misunderstanding. I hope with the explicit reference that clearly does say what I said, the text now is more appropriate? Elemimele (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Thinking about it, it might be fair to remove the sentence on the grounds that juvenile offences shouldn't be carried forwards into someone's adult life. I have no idea what Wikipedia's viewpoint on such things is? I have no axe to grind on this (I'm not even a US citizen, so US politics really isn't my thing). I just like the idea of articles being properly balanced and including all information necessary for a later, historical understanding of how a person fitted into the political landscape. Elemimele (talk) 17:16, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Response from someone experienced, at the Teahouse[[1]]; @KidAd, if you don't like that second sentence, do take it out again. Following Cullen's reply, I have no strong feelings either way. Elemimele (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

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BRD: Legal issues

@Jstew8: Per the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, you deleted text without explanation, you were reverted, and now you should discuss, not revert again. -- Pemilligan (talk) 00:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

The claims are from a single sourced publication. Reviewing the actual court files illustrate a different judgment. At no point did Mr. Miller have a positive test for drugs or alcohol while driving a vehicle. Rather, he sustained a concussion on impact and went to the hospital. The hospital did in fact test his blood and he was negative. These facts are outlined in subsequent reporting and court documents.

This is not a site to push a narrative but give biographical context to subjects, individuals, institutions, etc. Jstew8 (talk) 15:15, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The text is supported by two reliable, published secondary sources--The Washington Post and Politico--which is what Wikipedia articles should be based on. If "subsequent reporting and court documents" contradict those two sources, citing the contradictory sources might help to "give biographical context." -- Pemilligan (talk) 03:25, 5 May 2023 (UTC)