Talk:Mono no aware

formatting

sorry if my formatting sucks, i'm fairly new to contributing to wikipedia. :) --MilkMiruku 11:15, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Choice of hiragana

What is the reason for the wa in aware to be written with the ha? It seems so unusual it surely is worth an explanation.

The word was used in a pre-modern era and written with Historical kana usage. See there for more information. Sudachi 02:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

2007-02-8 Automated pywikipediabot message

--CopyToWiktionaryBot 07:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

"ahness"...?

What's ahness in "ahness" of things/life/love? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cow2001 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

Agreed - it's a trivial statement, POV sounding and does little to help elucidate on a complex concept. I've removed it.192.206.151.130 (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand where the confusion comes in and I have changed the structure somewhat to explain why many people do use "ahness" in defining mono no aware, which does seem....trivial when not understood in context. It is significant that he used aware, which is a simple Japanese Heian expression, and not Chinese derived, as other scholars might have used in coining an important cultural concept. It underlies the importance this concept has become to understanding Japan. Motoori Norinaga believed that Japanese were uniquely able to intuitively understand the fragile beauty in life, and that simple native Japanese words were better able to convey these concepts. I believe the clarification strengthens the article and helps to engender a deeper understanding of a word critical in Japanese aesthetic theory.Zenbabyhead (talk) 07:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

slight bias

"The verb form of aware means "to commiserate" or "to pity." Many Western scholars compare it to Virgil's term lacrimae rerum, with which it shares a rough resemblance."192.206.151.130 (talk) 14:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC) I'm not sure positing it this way does justice to the concept of 'mono no aware'. It's difficult to compare this term which figures so heavily in ancient Japanese thought and culture to another country's own respective culture.

I agree entirely that it's bogus to try to understand one culture by comparison to another, in the comparison to Virgil. I reinserted that note with a citation before I saw your comment, and now I'm a bit torn as to what the right thing to do is. I suppose it should remain; it would be less of a problem if the entry wasn't so brief and inept. Cheers, DBaba (talk) 00:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It is bogus to try to understand one culture *not* by comparison to another.Ricardo Dirani (talk) 12:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The similarity is so evident that it would be crazy not to mention it; why is it so hard to believe that similar concepts could arise independently in two widely separated cultures? Happens all the time. 91.107.150.92 (talk) 13:44, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

weight in Japanese thought and culture

I'm a bit surprised at how sparse the entry is for this concept, seeing how it figured so heavily in Japanese culture and history. In academia, there is a great deal written and debated about this concept and unfortunately I don't have any access to these sources, apart from what I can yoink online. 192.206.151.130 (talk) 14:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I've removed info that swayed from the meaning of the term Mono no aware, as well as removed the entry on "mujo". There was no Japanese Kanji to cite it specifically and writing it in romaji fails to give us an exact word. I'm still unfamiliar with writing articles on Wikipedia so I'll leave this to a more seasoned user. But I highly suggest someone write this article using more concrete sources, as this is a key concept in overall Japanese thought. More information is initially available at http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/MONO.HTM. Regards 192.206.151.130 (talk) 14:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree, that for a concept that is central to understanding Japanese culture, this article could be expanded significantly. I am editing at home at the moment, so I couldn't access the online Japanese journals, but will try to expand this article in the future. I would like to see it eventually broken up into several sections including definition, origin, examples or modern uses, and quotes concerning the importance of mono no aware in understanding Japanese culture. Motoori Norinaga believed that the sole purpose of waka and "The Tale of Genji" was to transmit the notion of of "mono no aware." Perhaps appropriate waka or quotes from the "Tale of Genji," might be appropriate as well.

Shikishima no Yamato gokoro wo Hito towaba Asahi ni niou Yama-zakura-bana

Asked about the soul of Japan, I would say That it is Like wild cherry blossoms Glowing in the morning sun.

-brushed on the self portrait of Motoori Norinaga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenbabyhead (talk • contribs) 07:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Bold text —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.217.33.201 (talk) 13:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Ransetsu

Hi! I read a poem in Basho's Saga Diary, received by Basho in a letter from someone named Ransetsu, that goes:

degawari ya / osanagokoro ni / mono aware

In David Landis Barnhill's translation:

servant changing day— / in the hearts of the children, / the sadness of things

This is from 1691. So is it really right that it was coined by Motoori Norinaga? :) (Mikael Brockman (talk) 08:55, 1 October 2011 (UTC))

Pronunciation??

I would think the last word is something like a-wa-ri. It is probably not pronounced like the English word "aware," but it is not clear how exactly it is pronounced Tumacama (talk) 15:11, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

No, but close, just got the last syllable off. It'd be more like a-wa-ray, but better yet, try pronouncing it as a hard "e", like in "men". More like a-wa-reh, perhaps. This goes for the pronunciation of "sake" as well, by the way - I cringe every time I hear someone say "sacky" instead of "sa-keh". Also, the japanese r is an alveolar or postalveolar flap (roughly) rather than the alveolar approximant we're used to in english, which can be rather difficult to pronounce for us. It's similar to an r with a bit of an l tossed in. Just stick with your typical "r" sound for now. Japanese is roughly phonetic all the way through, so pronouncing romaji should be really intuitive once you have its basic rules down. Just remember, "e"s are always pronounced, no matter where they are in the word, and similarly to "eh", like in "pet" or "chemical" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.69.149.163 (talk) 09:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The page needs the pronunciation written in IPA after the Japanese spelling. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:36, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

revert of kanji removal

Sorry, I hit the wrong button while reverting so I'll just explain why here. How is the kanji unnecessary? It's there so people can search for the topic in its original language, because the English translation is just one such translation. WIkipedia is a global project and we need to allow both readers and editors to find the original-language term. As for confusing, nearly every article on a Japanese subject has kanji and it has a question mark next to it to explain and help troubleshoot its appearance. Opencooper (talk) 17:29, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Motori Norinaga did not "coin" the term

According to this page:

言葉としては10世紀半ば平安中期ごろから用いられ，《源氏物語》には12例を見る。

Or in other words, the expression "Mono no aware" appeared twelve times in Genji monogatari (I just checked the source, and it does definitely appear at least once). So while Norinaga may have created the concept in the Edo period, he did not coin the actual phrase. It was used before him, though possibly with a different meaning. I strongly encourage someone to rewrite the "coined the term" part, but I know so little about the subject I'd rather not do it myself.Ornilnas (talk) 11:40, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Recent move

Hi Anthony, regarding the move to upper case, the phrase is normally written as mono no aware or mono-no-aware. See, for example:

• Encyclopaedia Britannica: "mono no aware ('sensitiveness to beauty') as the central concept of Japanese literature";
• Japanese Hermeneutics: Current Debates on Aesthetics and Interpretation, University of Hawaii Press, 2002, p. 61: "one goal ... is to demonstrate that mono no aware is not a cultural given";
• "Japanese Aesthetics", Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: "The meaning of the phrase mono no aware is complex ...".

SarahSV ^(talk) 14:49, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Addition of Information

I added some passages detailing Ozu's use of mono no aware and also an example of how mono no aware is still a part of Japanese culture through the traditional love of cherry blossoms.

Passages: Ozu has often expressed feelings by showing the faces of objects rather than the face of an actor. Some examples include two fathers contemplating the rocks in a "dry landscape" garden, and a mirror reflecting the absence of the daughter who has just left home after getting married. These images exemplified mono no aware as powerfully as the expression on the greatest actor's face.[2]

One of the most well-known examples of mono no aware in contemporary Japan is the traditional love of cherry blossoms, found throughout Japanese art and perpetuated by the large masses of people that travel annually to view and picnic under cherry trees. The trees are not considered to be of special value concerning their beauty in relation to other trees, such as apple or pear trees. Cherry tree blossoms are valued because of their transience, normally associated with the fact that the blossoms fall off the tree after only a week or so after first budding. It is the evanescence of the beauty of the cherry blossom that evokes the weary perspective of mono no aware in the viewer.[2]

HenryFerguson (talk) 21:54, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Correction/source for ""Ii tenki desu ne?" "

Hey everyone, first time commenting on Wikipedia so sorry if I do anything wrong.

I am just wondering - in this section "Ozu was well known for creating a sense of mono no aware, frequently climaxing with a character very understatedly saying "Ii tenki desu ne?" (いい天気ですね, 'Fine weather, isn't it?'), after a familial and societal paradigm shift, such as a daughter being married off, against the backdrop of a swiftly changing Japan." I was looking for the film (or A film) in which the quote "Ii tenki desu ne?" is actually said but I cannot find one.

I found a version of the film available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSpQkqFM7U0&list=PLrrKbHPKjy_NoL_0dOGq-Z6qvJEc8vzJ6&index=12 and the quote in the film itself seems to appear at at the 1:10:24 timestamp and to be closer to "ii tenki ni narisou desu." ("It looks like the weather will be nice." ( いい天気になりそうです。) According to the Japanese Captions or perhaps "Ashita mo ii tenki da" ("Tomorrow we will have beautiful weather again") which is what a friend who speaks Japanese told me he hears in the film . Very minor issue, wasted an hour on this haha. 193.115.205.152 (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)