Talk:Naomi Higgins

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This page was nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion on 22 August 2021. The result of the discussion was Reverted to article.

For your kind attention

@DMySon:, this article bypassed your AfC review. -Hatchens (talk) 15:15, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hatchens, Thanks for ping. I can see you have already marked it for speedy under A10. DMySon (talk) 16:08, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

Hey @Pogchampion69:, firstly sorry about having accidentally created the article while your draft was submitted, but we appear to have begun them within minutes of each other. I'm sure there was no common inciting incident. However, the policy for BLP is to not include exact birthdate unless it's very public - I don't really pay attention to dates when they're mentioned, does she frequently talk about it? Citations of that are obviously hard, I know I'm not willing to go through hundreds of hours of podcasts with a specific goal, and Twitch streams are ephemeral so most can't be retroactively checked anyway, so if you think she has made it public we can take it as true for now and source it next time she/others do mention it. From reading your draft, I saw that you mentioned her partner. It's obviously fine if you do add that info here, but I wanted to explain my reasoning for not including that. WP articles about women are consistently more likely to talk about their relationships, and it's one of the many many many gender bias issues of WP. For that reason, I tend to actively avoid mentioning women's relationships unless it's central to their notability. That's a personal choice about the way I contribute to WP though, and I won't remove it if anyone does add it (I may change the way it's said though, ngl). -- Xurizuri (talk) 02:22, 8 August 2021 (UTC) // edited a wikilink to point to the correct place 02:55, 8 August 2021 (UTC) // lmao I noticed another mistake, I added a phrase to make a sentence work. 07:04, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article's history: AfC, CSD and redirect

Hi, I'd like to have a record here to make it easy for people in future to figure out what's happened. Please correct me if I get anything here wrong.

7 August 2021

09:21UTC - A draft of this article was created at Draft:Naomi Higgins by User:Pogchampion69.
09:22UTC - The draft was submitted to AfC.
10:13UTC - This article was created here by myself (note: I started writing it before the draft was submitted to AfC).
12:43UTC - The draft was declined by User:DMySon as it didn't meet the minimum standards for BLP inline citations.
15:08UTC - Pogchampion69 merged their draft into this article.
12:13UTC - This article was marked for speedy deletion under A10 by User:Hatchens (A10 referred to the draft)
21:26UTC - User:Sdrqaz contests speedy deletion, with edit summary "Declination of A10 CSD nomination – does not apply to duplicates of drafts".

22 August 2021

04:19UTC - User:The Grid blanks article and makes it a redirect to the draft, with edit summary "Article is not ready for mainspace; AfC was purposely bypassed".
11:27UTC - User:Stefan2 listed the redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Naomi Higgins because it violated WP:R2.
13:16UTC - User:Spinningspark restored the article, edit summary "Cross-namespace redirects of this sort are against guidlines WP:R#DELETE#6"
13:24UTC - Spinningspark closed the RFD. "The result of the discussion was Reverted to article. Purposely bypassing AFC is not against policy, even if that was true. AFC is not a compulsory process. What is against guidelines is creating this kind of cross-namespace redirect. The editors involved should decide themselves what, if anything or everything, should be merged from the draft."

And I believe that's everything. @The Grid:, now we just need to address Spinningspark's recommendation. Firstly, to address your concerns regarding good faith, I'll explain why both articles were made at the same time. We were both in her Twitch chat and people were talking about making a Wikipedia article. And clearly then we both wrote one, except we have different levels of experience with WP editing and went different routes. Secondly, this article does meet the minimum standards for citation, so it addresses the reason that the draft was declined. Finally, I would've said there was a consensus here about what was merged from the draft, up to and including the edits by the IP (@Pogchampion69:, would you agree?). As a heads up, I have reinstated those IP edits because I can't verify the claims that got removed, and it's better to be safe than sorry with BLP. I'm happy either way if anybody does verify them though. Does anyone have any other concerns about the article? Might as well clear it up now. --Xurizuri (talk) 13:37, 24 August 2021 (UTC) // edited wikilink 13:38, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unless either author has a conflict of interest with the subject, there is nothing inherently wrong with bypassing AfC. If any editor feels that the subject is not sufficiently notable (I haven't looked closely into it), the course of action is not to redirect it to draft or move it back to draftspace (with the caveat for COI and paid editors). The course of action is to either propose it for deletion or nominate it for deletion. Sdrqaz (talk) 14:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sdrqaz, I'm in agreement with you. - Hatchens (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the timeline of events. I would have tried to keep everything to draft before it got on mainspace. – The Grid (talk) 16:42, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

After analyzing the Afc, CSD and redirect log which are provided by Sdrqaz, i can say this is the case of COI and the article must be moved into the draft.DMySon (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have evidence of a COI? @Pogchampion69 and Xurizuri: Do you have a conflict of interest with Higgins? Sdrqaz (talk) 17:38, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good lord no, I don't edit articles I have a CoI with. If youse would rather be safe and put it through the AfC process, I'm not gonna get up in arms about it. I have pride in my work, but I also have pride in not having been the subject of dispute mediation. @DMySon: (or anyone else that assesses drafts) could I ask whether you would approve this article as is, if it came through AfC? --Xurizuri (talk) 10:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wait what log provided by Sdrqaz? --Xurizuri (talk) 10:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. I assume they've confused you with me, because I've not provided any logs.

I'm not in favour of moving it back and forth. It's now in the mainspace. Like I said, if someone has an issue with its notability, take it to AfD. Sdrqaz (talk) 12:53, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]