Talk:Nazism

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Former featured article candidateNazism is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 6, 2004Featured article candidateNot promoted
July 11, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Former featured article candidate

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

Other countries[edit]

Nazism had a powerful influence on neighboring European countries. It seems to me to be appropriate to include some reference to this such as: It was also contemporaneous or promoted in other European countries, particularly those with large ethnic German communities such as Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Yugoslavia

Edit request: CS and Hungary[edit]

I don't think it's appropriate to equate Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the lede as countries where Nazism took hold. Hungary as a nation fell to Nazi governance in its entirety and conducted itself as a Nazi state, whereas Czechoslovakia only did so after German invasion. An element (the German minority) within Czechoslovakia supported Nazism, but the same could be said for the United Kingdom. Czechoslovakia should be removed from the lede. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.48.18 (talkcontribs) 04:51, July 21, 2014

ISBN[edit]

Hi Beyond My Ken. Thanks for fixing the ISBN number. I got the one I used from this page. Presumably it looks different because it's a different format or something. Anyway, looks like it's working now, I just wanted to explain that I didn't change it maliciously at all. › Mortee talk 21:37, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

No, I didn't think you did, I assumed it was something like that. Since I added the book to the bibliography, I wanted to make sure that the ISBN was the correct one for the edition that I used, which is at the side of the sofa as I type. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2018[edit]

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsiɪzəm, ˈnæt-/),[1] is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party – officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) – in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar aims.

The reference in the last line (in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar aims) is an inaccurate statement.

This needs to be changed from far right to far-left and here's why. Traditionally and in common practice today it is far left groups seeking social change have a desire to control society at large through large centralized governmental social control. However at the other end Traditionally far-right groups both past and present seek the decentralization and reduction of governmental control believing people should not be forced to others ideas but that people should have the right to work for themselves and decide for their future (this is called liberty). Nazism/socialism/ and communism are all similar bedfellows from far-left thinking. Each group or ideology seeks to control the populace at large forcing people by authoritarian means to their social and political ideology. Until in full control Nazism, socialism, and communism demean and deprecate all those who disagree.

In the Thirties, intellectuals smitten by progressivism considered limited, constitutional governance anachronistic. The Great Depression had apparently proven capitalism defunct (we know now that's not true). The remaining choice had narrowed between communism and fascism. Hitler was about an inch to the right of Stalin. Western intellectuals infatuated with Marxism thus associated fascism with the Right in order to cower any conservative opposition.

Later, Marxists from the Frankfurt School popularized this prevailing sentiment. Theodor Adorno in The Authoritarian Personality devised the "F" scale to demean conservatives as latent fascists. The label "fascist" has subsequently meant anyone liberals (Left or far-left thinkers) seek to ostracize or discredit.

Fascism is an amorphous ideology mobilizing an entire nation (Mussolini, Franco and Peron) or race (Hitler) for a common purpose. Leaders of industry, science, education, the arts and politics combine to shepherd society in an all encompassing quest. (far right conservatives deplore these ideas) Hitler’s premise was a pure Aryan Germany capable of dominating Europe.

While he feinted right, Hitler and Stalin were natural bedfellows. Hitler mimicked Lenin’s path to totalitarian tyranny, parlaying crises into power. Nazis despised Marxists not over ideology, but because they had betrayed Germany in World War I and Nazis found it unconscionable that German communists yielded fealty to Slavs in Moscow.

I am not sure if you need more? While I know this may be disagreeable to some we really need to be accurate considering how many people use Wikipedia. Ashhistory (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: This has been very frequently discussed, so please see the FAQ at the top of the page. Wikipedia goes by reliable, published sources, not original research. There are some dissenters, but the majority of historians and other reliable sources describe Nazism as far-right for a wide variety of reasons. Grayfell (talk) 21:26, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Original research can be quite interesting when it is informed by a broad understanding of the topics at hand. This thread, on the other hand, bores me to tears. It contains nothing resembling a rational argument; merely a false conclusion perched upon postulates formed from equal parts naval-gazing vacuity and the caricatures of American politics frequently screamed in shrill tones at uneducated audiences eager for a black-and-white morality that paints them as unquestionably righteous by talk-radio shock jocks who have staked their careers on the slim hope that no-one will ever call them out on their bullshit.
Owing to my deep seated sense of altruism, however, I will lower my dignity to respond to one particular point: Fascism is an amorphous ideology mobilizing an entire nation (Mussolini, Franco and Peron) or race (Hitler) for a common purpose. I would note that Russia, England, France and the US were led by (and their armies populated by) predominantly people of the "white race", and that Spain, Italy, Argentina and Germany were all possessed of sizable anti-fascist resistance movements during the lifetimes of those named leaders. IO would further note that I learned these facts in high school, and thus that my 14 year old self could have pointed out the incredible ignorance of this comment. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 00:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
See No original research. Even if I agreed with your analysis, you would need to show that it has any acceptance in reliable sources. TFD (talk) 01:11, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
"However at the other end Traditionally far-right groups both past and present seek the decentralization and reduction of governmental control" Bullshit. The far-right is synonymous with authoritarianism, conservatism, and traditionalism. See also right-wing authoritarianism. Dimadick (talk) 01:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Note also the claim that the Left supports "large centralized governmental social control." That means anti-pornography, anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-feminism, anti-crime, pro-segregation, etc., which were positions of the Nazi Party but also of American conservatives. While they holler states rights over universal health care, they ask the central government to enforce social control. TFD (talk) 04:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
the Left supports "large centralized governmental social control." That means ... anti-LGBT" That part is correct. See LGBT history in Russia, concerning the Soviet Union's anti-LGBT policies.:
  • " Along with increased repression of political dissidents and non-Russian nationalities under Stalin, LGBT themes and issues faced increasing official government censorship and a uniformly harsher policy across the entire Soviet Union. Homosexuality was officially labelled a disease and a mental disorder in the late 1920s (specifically over a period from 1927-1930). In this climate, Commissar Semashko reduced his support for homosexual rights and Dr. Batkis and other sexual researchers repudiated (in 1928) their own earlier scientific reports of homosexuality as a natural human sexuality."
  • "In 1933, the Soviet government under Stalin recriminalised homosexuality. On 7 March 1934, Article 121 was added to the criminal code for the entire Soviet Union that expressly prohibited only male homosexuality, with up to five years of hard labour in prison. There were no criminal statutes regarding lesbianism. During the Soviet regime, Western observers believed that between 800 and 1,000 men were imprisoned each year under Article 121."
  • "Some historians have noted that it was during this time that Soviet propaganda began to depict homosexuality as a sign of fascism and that Article 121 may have a simple political tool to use against dissidents, irrespective of their true sexual orientation and to solidify Russian opposition to Nazi Germany, who had broken its treaty with Russia."
  • "More recently, a third possible reason for the anti-gay law has emerged from declassified Soviet documents and transcripts. Beyond expressed fears of a vast "counterrevolutionary" or fascist homosexual conspiracy, there were several high-profile arrests of Russian men accused of being pederasts. In 1933, 130 men "were accused of being 'pederasts' – adult males who have sex with boys. Since no records of men having sex with boys at that time are available, it is possible this term was used broadly and crudely to label homosexuality". Whatever the precise reason, homosexuality remained a serious criminal offense until it was repealed in 1993."
  • The Soviet government itself said very little publicly about the change in the law and few people seemed to be aware that it existed. In 1934, the British communist Harry Whyte wrote a long letter to Stalin condemning the law and its prejudicial motivations. He laid out a Marxist position against the oppression of homosexuals as a social minority and compared homophobia to racism, xenophobia and sexism. The letter was not formally replied to. A few years later in 1936, Justice Commissar Nikolai Krylenko publicly stated that the anti-gay criminal law was correctly aimed at the decadent and effete old ruling classes, thus further linking homosexuality to a right-wing conspiracy, i.e. Tsarist aristocracy and German fascists."
  • Note also that the decriminalization of homosexuality was one of the major reforms of Boris Yeltsin (term 1991-1999). Dimadick (talk) 12:01, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Unless you're trying to make the case that the left supports anti-LGBT laws in the Western world as well, then Russia's anti-LGBT past is not a feature of left wing politics, but of Russian politics. I would note that Russia has become rather conservative (to put it mildly) in recent years, yet LGBT rights in Russia are still not exactly respected. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 12:19, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
You have to view this in the context of the times and the individual countries. In the Weimar Republic, both Communists and Social Democrats opposed the criminalization of homosexuality. Conservatives, Nazis, Christian Democrats and liberals did not. You mention that Stalin re-criminalized homosexuality, but fail to mention that Lenin decriminalized it, making the Soviet Union probably the only country to do so. An article in Quora, "Did the Soviet Union persecute homosexuals?" explains the shortcomings of the Wikipedia article. TFD (talk) 14:09, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
And don't forget the implications of the Horseshoe theory when you're looking at (actual) far-left governments like the USSR... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 14:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2018[edit]

Chang far right to far left ChillyWilly563 (talk) 22:08, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ToThAc (talk) 22:18, 18 October 2018 (UTC)