Talk:Nerium

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50 toxic compounds[edit]

The article previously claimed oleander contains deadly levels of over 50 toxic compounds. This statement is patently false as it does not reference any quantities — a certain mass of plant material needs to be ingested for a deadly level to be reached. Unfortunately, there is also no reference of any supporting the claim of '50 toxic compounds'.

As such, I've rephrased this sentence to say that oleander contains 'numerous toxic compounds, many of which can be deadly in even small quantities'.

--PJF (talk) 10:39, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

HELFUL HINTS:

I noticed that in the last paragraph I was not sure if you meant that especially in horses it causes diarrea or colic, you might want to change your wording. The pictures are a nice touch, and the paragraphs are spaced out well. I think that the wording was good, but could use some more references in the script. Arobutz

Thanks for the tips I will look into them. On the topic of merging the articals I must say that at this time I am opposed to this. However that is partialy because I am new and do not understand what all that would mean. If it wher exsplained to me and I understood how the page would be layed out I would consiter it. But at this time I am hapy to have my artical hav a link to the other. --LPW 19:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Suggested merge from Nerium oleander and its toxins[edit]

  • Agree fully - there's nothing on the duplicate page that can't be accomodated just as easily here (though it'll need a deal of copyediting in transfer) MPF 22:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Could you tell me what would happen to each is idiotic artical if they were to be merged? thanks --LPW 22:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Basically that the two sets of information would be merged into one page with a simple title (one more readily found by a single word search!); nothing need be lost in doing so, only direct duplication would be filtered out. Of the copyediting I mentioned above, I think it has most or all been done now; it could still perhaps benefit from a bit more of an international perspective, using details from the species' native area (e.g. any uses in Chinese, Indian and Arabic traditional medicine, etc). - MPF 01:07, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Inappropriate/Useless Comments[edit]

Within the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleander) the following comment appears:

"However, many people find it quite convenient to poison their children with oleander, as this provides for the parents a cheap and effective way to kill children that they do not like or want."

While mildy amusing, I think this should be removed; unless there is a custom, even or some such thing where children were poisoned with the toxins of this plant, it isn't appropriate.

Removal of "Ethnomedical uses" section[edit]

I've removed the section quoted below:

Quote: Records of the medicinal use of oleander date back at least 3500 years.[citation needed] The Mesopotamians in the 15th century BC believed in the healing properties of oleander[citation needed] and the ancient Babylonians used a mixture of oleander and licorice to treat hangovers[citation needed]. Roman soldiers also regularly took an oleander extract for hangovers[citation needed]. Pliny, the Elder of ancient Greece, wrote about the appearance and properties of oleander[citation needed]. Arab physicians first used oleander as a cancer treatment in the 8th century AD[citation needed].

Centuries later, in the 1633 edition of "The Herbal, or General History of Plants", the author John Gerard says of oleander: "This tree being outwardly applied, as Galen saith, hath a digesting faculty; but if it be inwardly taken it is deadly and poisonsome, not only to men, but also to most kinds of beasts. The flowers and leaves kill dogs, asses, mules, and very many of other four footed beasts: but if men drink them in wine they are a remedy against the bitings of Serpents, and the rather if Rue be added. The weaker sort of cattle, as sheep and goats, if they drink the water wherein the leaves have been steeped, are sure to die." which indicates knowledge that the raw plant is poisonous, but that extracts of the plant were used medicinally. An oleander extract much like the home remedy known as "oleander soup" is most likely the magic healing potion that led to the witchcraft accusation against Rebecca[citation needed], the beautiful Jewish woman from the Holy Land, in Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe".

In recent centuries, oleander has continued to be used in folk remedies and in commercial preparations. In 1966 Doctor H. Z. Ozel in Turkey in 1966 re-discovered a centuries old oleander extract remedy, which he later refined and patented as Anvirzel, which he has used with great success for the past 40 years in treating cancer and other cell proliferative diseases[citation needed]. Nerium oleander extract and Anvirzel have been the subject of numerous trials and studies, most notably those led by MD Anderson researcher Doctor Robert Newman, and Anvirzel has passed US FDA phase I trials[citation needed].

In European studies in the 1980s, the nerium oleander extract was found to have six times the immune stimulating activity of the most powerful patented immune stimulators[citation needed].

The home-remedy version of nerium oleander extract is modeled after Doctor Ozel's patent for Anvirzel and is called "oleander soup". This remedy is used to treat cancer, hepatitis-C, psoriasis, HIV and other conditions, and is made by precise directions for boiling, condensing and straining according to the recipe for making the soup which is available on the internet as well as in published form. When further condensed and made into a skin creme, the remedy is used to get rid of warts, moles, age spots and pre-cancerous lesions.

Oleander leaf extract is also taken to treat congestive heart disease[citation needed]. No one should attempt to make their own oleander remedy without precise directions and oleander should only be taken after consultation with an experienced herbalist and physician because it is a highly toxic poison in raw form that may be lethal to humans and animals in even doses as small as one leaf. End Quote

I've removed as it is unreferenced to credible sources and makes extraordinary claims. Please do not add it back in without citations to respected peer-reviewed works or similar. WLDtalk|edits 21:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The above section was re-added by User:Dquixote1217 without providing sources of any type. If you are Dquixote1217, please read the Wikipedia policy on verifiability here: Wikipedia:Verifiability and provide sources that comply with that policy. Thanks. WLDtalk|edits 06:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Dquixote1217/Tony Isaacs - there is a Wikipedia policy of No Original Research, and citing your own publication as a reference is not allowed under policy as well. Did you read the policy on verifiability linked to above? If not, I recommend it, and reading around the area as well. You should provide references for all your assertions, including those in the first paragraph concerning the Mesopotamians, Babylonians, and Pliny. All of Pliny's writings are out of copyright, so you should be able to link to text supporting the statement, if nothing else. Citing your own book just is not acceptable. WLDtalk|edits 09:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, in the quoted text above, I have indicated where you need to provide individual citations for the statements made. Referreing to your own book doesn't meet the requirement, I'm afraid. WLDtalk|edits 12:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Foxfroggy 15:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC) It was entirely appropriate to delete that material which lacks credible support. Contributions to various websites do not confer expert status, and the claims made lack reliable support, as do those about the drug formulary. An objective reporting of the therapeutic value of this plant would be of interest.

Methods of Poisoning[edit]

I think this article could be a little more clear in the ways that Oleander is toxic. Most of the article implies it must be ingested, but also states it causes rashes. To what degree must the plant be touched for this to occur? If it gets into the bloodstream (such as through a cut or something) is it more/less/not-at-all poisonous? Also the general information states that the whole plant is poisonous while in the more specific section about the oil it states only the veins are toxic. I just think this could use some clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.72.131.72 (talk) 07:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I ingested quite a bit of leaves when I was young (12) and although it made me very ill for several days, it obviously did not kill me. I think there probably isn't much research on this, no one knows, and everyone's body is different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelt65 (talkcontribs) 22:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Toxicity overblown?[edit]

While I am aware that Oleander does contain the toxin Oleandrin, I think that the section on the toxicity is needlessly overblown and somewhat alarmist, what with all the HUGE BOLDED WARNINGS everywhere. Most cultivated species of Oleander aren't really that poisonous and the bitter taste should keep children and household pets away from the plant regardless. Should the article really contain this kind of thing? While warnings are certainly appropriate, this is still an encyclopedia, not a self-help book for prospective parents. A basic description of the toxin as well as symptoms of a Oleandrin poisoning should be enough. Any objections? --217.91.122.24 (talk) 07:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

It probably is very toxic, but one of the main effects is intense nausea which almost guarantees it will be vomited up before it can be digested to the point of being life threatening. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelt65 (talkcontribs) 00:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I read of a family who died of oleander poisoning after eating meat that had been spit-roasted over a fire of oleander cuttings.Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:36, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

That story of the family may be an urban legend, sometimes recast as a group of camping scouts Ttennebkram (talk) 03:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Oleander Moth in wrong section[edit]

I propose the Oleander Moth should not be mentioned under the trunk oil section. A new section (Parasites, or Pests) should contain this section. Iluziat (talk) 01:16, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Unknown unknowns?[edit]

The statement in the article that " It is thought that Oleander may contain many other unknown or un-researched compounds that may have dangerous effects" reads like Donald Rumsfeld in his "unknown unknowns" speech, or a statement lacking verification at best. The sentence has 'three statements of the unknown - "it is thought", "unknown" and "may have". This looks more like scariness than information. 81.129.207.110 (talk) 00:18, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Dragonwyck[edit]

Oleander features prominently in Dragonwyck (film) and perhaps Dragonwyck (novel) upon which it was based. Creepy music and all while the camera places the plant center and full screen after the mysterious death of a woman. I wonder if it should be added here. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 02:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Life Magazine. Also see picture caption. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 03:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Mismatched citations and text for Medicinal Uses section[edit]

The abstract referred to in support of "a lack of any proven benefits" describes a phase I evaluation of Anvirzel, which tested for harmful side effects, of which there were found to be none up to 1.2 ml/m2/d. This study was not a search for benefits, thus cannot describe "a lack of any proven benefits."

The second part of the sentence, "a range of Oleander-based treatments are being promoted on the Internet and in some alternative medicine circles, drawing a warning letter from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)," also fails to describe the source posted, which is a warning letter to Ozelle regarding their premature promotion of Anvirzel on their website. The sentence phrasing suggests that the warning letter is to the general public regarding ubiquitous beliefs about Oleander use in general.

Please rephrase the entry text or replace the citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.10.93 (talk) 02:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


Oleander is toxic[edit]

This article strongly misguide to anyone that would think in wikipedia as source of information. Oleander causes rush to skin, and is toxic. NIH should be a good primary source of information: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002884.htm

The only reason why there is not too much deads by oleander ingestion is that if you cut the plant, you get pretty fast a strong rush in the skin, and people do not used to eat something that caused a strong rush.

In several countries where the plant is pretty common in wild -like Spain-, it is not legal to sell Oleander to particulars, due to the high risks involved. The state, anyway, use it as low-mainteance plant by the highways where there is too much sun and too few water.

Signed: somebody that have seen wild-born oleanders since child, and that have seen several stupid people go to the doctor for cutting oleander flowers with bare hands.


Oleander plants in yards: I would like to add that Oleander plants are indeed dangerous and should not be used as common yard hedges because of their potential harm to people as well as animals, including pets and wild animals. This wikipedia article should make that clear to people who are otherwise unaware of the potential danger. Overall, the plant is a dangerous addition to many home environments. Pruning them can be a dangerous or unpleasant experience. Disposal of the clippings is also an issue as they remain poisonous. I don't believe putting them in a burn pile is advisable. Someone should check. There are plenty of substitutes that are not poison.

Oleander plants in California Freeways: I have seen many Oleander plants removed from center medians of I5 and I99. I believe that CalTrans is no longer planting them and in many cases proactively removing them. They are easy to maintain until you need to do something to them, like trim them. At that point they become dangerous and difficult to clean up. I don't know how much Oleander plant debris makes its way into the water supply but any amount would be a step in the wrong direction. It is bad for the local animal population. It provides nothing usable. Not even shelter.

They are pretty, and act as a good hedge, but the poisonous nature makes them a bad choice for most applications. They are not indigenous to North America. I had a significant number of them removed from my California yard many years ago when the kids started playing hide and seek in the Oleander bushes. Freeway medians, maybe. Homes, not a good idea at all.

From: 1cocomon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1cocomon (talkcontribs) 20:55, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

"it grows as far north as Washington DC"[edit]

I live in Washington, DC and this species isn't reliably hardy here. It may survive the occasional warm winter, but I know of no long-term survivors. If it's grown at all, it's as a container plant, or as a temporary planting that is either dug up in the fall or left to die. 71.163.146.238 (talk) 00:29, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

That extremely dubious information was added by an unregistered user on 5 August 2014 and was never caught or reverted. I've returned it to the original phrase, "as far north as Virginia Beach, Virginia". It might be worth checking this article for other dubious edits. 71.163.146.238 (talk) 00:42, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Kaneru sounds like oleander?[edit]

The article refers to a, "... related plant with similar local name (Kaneru(S) කණේරු) ..." "Kaneru" isn't similar to "oleander" in English pronunciation. Is that the name of a language? A quick web search didn't find one. Is that non-Roman script spelling a word similar to Oleander? (Online translators can't even identify the language involved.) Can someone clarify this sentence? I would if I could figure it out. IAmNitpicking (talk) 13:58, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Organization and tone of this article[edit]

The overall tone of this article makes an ordinary person NOT want to read it. I am very well educated and it was actually painful to read this article. It looks like one big long plagiarized cut and paste. It is difficult to read, it has no style, and the information provided is not relevant to the interested reader who is not a professional botanist.

The article needs to put all the heavy-duty scientific decriptions further down instead of cramming so much inside the introduction. The introduction should provide a simple overview, describing the plant in layman's terms. There should be some explanation given as to whether oleander is a desireable shrub despite its toxic properties or whether it is considered an invasive species.

The way the article reads now is truly boring, difficult to understand, and quite frankly, very poor English. Being grammatically correct is only half of the writer's responsibility. The other half is to cultivate a style that interests the reader and provides information without the ordinary person ripping his hair out at the preponderance of scientific terminology. This article does not appear to have been written by a native English speaker.

Wikipedia is for the general public and it was not meant to be for the republication of academic articles. This entire article on oleander should be deleted and re-written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.93.138.182 (talk) 09:22, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

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