Talk:Peirol

A fact from Peirol appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 October 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that though many troubadours wrote about the Crusades and either encouraged or mocked them as politics dictated, the jongleur Peirol was one of the few to actually travel to the Holy Land, on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1221?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/October.

Wikipedia

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Poetry Low‑importance

	Poetry portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Middle Ages: Crusades Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Crusades task force.

Two suggestions

Usually, the MoS is to give song or poem titles in double quotes rather than italics (for instance "Le Léthé" is a poem in Les Fleurs du mal), so that should apply here too. Or was there a special MoS for this case?

A pronunciation key would be good. (At least an approximate one, plus an IPA if possible). I say it "pay-rol" (or "pé-rol" if you prefer) but I've no idea how it was originally supposed to be pronounced in his lifetime, which could be a secondary pronunciation key. And some readers may read the whole article thinking "pea-rol" (as for "neither"). Something such as, tentatively:

Peirol (approximatively "pay-rol", IPA: [peʁɔl], birth estimated around ...)

— Komusou ^talk @ 11:20, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea how it's pronounced and have never seen a pronunciation key, so it seems irrelevant. Let hem pronounce it "pea-rol" if they like! As to the format of italicising, I do so because these works are independent, but feel free to change that if you like. Srnec 11:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At least the modern pronunciation I heard was "pé-rol" (English approximate "pay-rol").
For the general Wikipedia:Manual of Style (titles), it's double quotes for any short piece whether part of a whole or not. For instance Poe's "The raven" was a separate piece published in a magazine, etc. Since there doesn't seem to be a special case here, I'll update to quotes.
One more question: What is the order of the poem list based upon? I realize it's the list from the website, but where did they get it from? Is it the standard order given by scholarly books based on some arcane datation, or is it just the site's random order from the database? If random, alphabetical order would be better; and at any rate, the reader should be told explicitely which sort order we use. — Komusou ^talk @ 12:00, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You changed 32 to 34, but I notice two poems entitled "Peirol, ..." Are these Peirol's works or the other side of the two tensos? Srnec 12:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand them (a very relative term, I don't read Occitan), each of them is a complete tenso already. "Peirol, com avetz tan estat" is probably the dialogue between Peirol and Bernart de Ventadorn. As for the short "Peirol, pois vengutz es vas nos", it looks like an allegory (Love? Love of Homeland?) is adressing Peirol in the first stanza, and Peirol answers in the second, a one-two dialogue (a subgenre of tenso called a cobla, as opposed to the longer and more dialectical partimen subgenre). But then, I changed 34 to 32 purely based on the list that was 34. There may be some good reason behind "32". — Komusou ^talk @ 12:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Still, you're onto something, because I just notice how the last 8 poems of the site's list are actually all tensos, so there IS some sort of underlying order or classification, after all. I'm going to split the list between cansos and tensos accordingly. — Komusou ^talk @ 13:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Peirol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071015134302/http://www.auvergne.fr/culture/ecrivains-et-penseurs.html to http://www.auvergne.fr/culture/ecrivains-et-penseurs.html
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://swan.mls.lib.il.us:90/kids/0/search/a?Peirol%2C+ca.+1160-ca.+1221&search_code=a
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://bibliographienationale.bnf.fr/dsam/cua_06.h/IndexAuteurPhysique-107.html
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.abeillemusique.com/produit.php?cle=15747
Corrected formatting/usage for http://community.livejournal.com/trobadors/5798.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:17, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]