Talk:Periodic table

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recolour group 12 as post-transition metals?[edit]

Sandbh has written at WT:ELEM:

The fact that IUPAC's Gold Book definition follows Cotton is another point in favour of this classification. Yes, we have been known to disregard IUPAC when common usage suggests otherwise, but this issue tends to be split 50–50 between textbook authors. What pushes me finally over the line to removing group 12 from the transition metals is that people who include them in the transition metals proper generally have to point to lame arguments to keep them in. Group 12 just does not show either the chemical or physical properties of transition metals, whereas groups 4–10 show both, group 3 (including the lanthanides and actinides) shows the physical properties, and group 11 shows the chemical properties.

We can of course cover the differing conceptions of what a transition metal is in Wikipedia when the issue is relevant. However, it seems to me that the best way to go as a default is to give the classification that is most representative of an element's chemistry (that's why we don't colour lanthanum as a transition metal, for example). Thus I think it is better to colour Zn, Cd, Hg, and Cn as post-transition metals.

Comments? Double sharp (talk) 08:28, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

If you wish to comment, please go to WT:ELEM § A less extreme proposal -- YBG (talk) 04:24, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Image updating for new named elements[edit]

The image under the section "First systemization attempts" is not up to date, still using placeholder names. If someone could put a updated image there it would be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fig28awsome444 (talkcontribs) 02:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Element notation[edit]

Is there a reason why 12 letters of the ABC are not used in the Periodic table? A,D,E,G,J,L,M,Q,R,T,X,Z

examples
Aluminium - A
Dysprosium - D
Europium - E
Galium - G
Lithium - L
Magnesium - M
Ruthenium - R
Titanium - T
Xenon - X (The onley element begining with X)
Zinc - Z

יהודה שמחה ולדמן (talk) 00:59, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

A used to be argon, but it was changed to Ar (presumably because, since it would usually occur alone, it would look fantastically confusing). D is deuterium and T is tritium. J was once used for iodine, from German Jod (today Iod is used, though you may find this usage from as recently as the 1970s). G used to be for beryllium, which previously was called "glucinium" (for the sweet taste of its salts, which are however fantastically poisonous; the name "beryllium" was suggested instead because some yttrium salts are also sweet). Some of the others are "generic" symbols: E is for any electrophile, L for any ligand, M for any metal, R for any alkyl group (sometimes also for radicals), and X for any halogen (sometimes X, Y, and Z are used when multiple generic elements from the same group are needed, even though Y is also yttrium). That leaves Q, which is easy to explain because no element has it in its name. Double sharp (talk) 04:56, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, generic symbols are not an obstacle for an element symbol. I personally think that in most cases, two-letter symbols are better because they immeditely provide more context. I remember that when Berkeley first synthesized einsteinium, they wanted to use the symbol E. The current symbol Es is better as it does not make you think for another half a second, "what 'E' are we talking about?", since einstenium is a rare (in fact, sythethic) element.
Hydrogen, oxygen, and other one-letter elements are very common. They don't need that context.
(Also, just since you mentioned Jod: it is still the norm, at least per actual usage, in German outside chemistry per my knowledge. (After writing this, I checked German Wiki. The article begins with "Iod (standardsprachlich: Jod)," so I must be right.) I can easily tell the same is correct for Russian, which I only learned from Wiki, as I had never encountered the spelling "иод" (iod) in real life. Chemists are keen on regulating spellings, apparently: see WP:ALUM to get an example from English.)--R8R (talk) 10:21, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
To some extent I think yttrium should have remained as Yt, because we want Y fairly often as the natural follow-up to generic X. You are right that they are not obstacles (we deal with it for yttrium), but these meanings are essentially so standardised that it would be needlessly confusing, so even if they are not forbidden de jure (as far as IUPAC can be considered such) they essentially are de facto.
Also, thanks for the interesting information about iodine! Most of the German literature I read about it is naturally chemical-oriented and hence uses the spelling with the i. The spelling regulation is useful for sorting and indexing databases, at least: no one wants to search for iodine oxides under both "I" and "J". Double sharp (talk) 10:44, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Categories[edit]

I suggest organization of elements into these categories:

  • Alkali metals: Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs, Fr
  • Alkaline earth metals: Be, Mg, Ca, Sr, Ba, Ra
  • Lanthanides: La, Ce, Pr, Nd, Pm, Sm, Eu, Gd, Tb, Dy, Ho, Er, Tm, Yb
  • Actinides: Ac, Th, Pa, U, Np, Pu, Am, Cm, Bk, Cf, Es, Fm, Md, No
  • Transition metals:
    • Platinum group: Fe, Co, Ni, Ru, Rh, Pd, Os, Ir, Pt
    • Noble metals: Ru, Rh, Pd, Ag, Os, Ir, Pt, Au
    • Coinage metals: Cu, Ag, Au
    • Volatile metals: Zn, Cd, Hg
    • Superheavy elements: Lr, Rf, Db, Sg, Bh, Hs, Mt, Ds, Rg, Cn
    • Other transition metals: Sc, Ti, V, Cr, Mn, Y, Zr, Nb, Mo, Tc, Lu, Hf, Ta, W, Re
  • Post-transition metals:
    • Icosagens: Al, Ga, In, Tl, Nh
    • Crystallogens: Sn, Pb, Fl
    • Pnictogens: Bi, Mc
    • Chalcogens: Lv
    • Superheavy elements: Nh, Fl, Mc, Lv
  • Metalloids:
    • Icosagens: B
    • Crystallogens: Si, Ge
    • Pnictogens: As, Sb
    • Chalcogens: Te, Po
    • Halogens: At
  • Nonmetals:
    • Polyatomic nonmetals:
      • Crystallogens: C
      • Pnictogens: P
      • Chalcogens: S, Se
    • Diatomic nonmetals:
      • Hydrogen: H
      • Pnictogens: N
      • Chalcogens: O
      • Halogens: F, Cl, Br, I
    • Superheavy elements: Ts
  • Noble gases: He, Ne, Ar, Kr, Xe, Rn, Og
    • Superheavy elements: Og

What do you think about this system? 108.66.232.14 (talk) 01:20, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

This article is about The periodic table of the elements. If you would like to organize elements into new categories, feel free to write up a proposed organizational scheme for the periodic table, submit it for peer review and publication in a journal with a reasonably high impact score. Once your scheme has been published and accepted by the academic community, bring it back here for inclusion in the article. - SummerPhDv2.0 02:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
This is not a proposal to re-categorize elements; it is instead a proposal to categorize the elements into subcategories (such as Superheavy elements). 108.66.232.14 (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
If you have reliable sources showing that these subcategories are widely used re the periodic table, please provide those sources.
If the subcategories are not widely used in re the periodic table, there is nothing to discuss here. - SummerPhDv2.0 02:50, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
See Group (periodic table) and Superheavy element. 108.66.232.14 (talk) 03:01, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

This system is OK. Nearly all of the categories are shown on the periodic table in the article, here. The refractory metals and the noble metals are mentioned just below that table, here. Other category names are listed in Names for sets of chemical elements. Sandbh (talk) 06:27, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

One flaw in your proposal is that you mix up two categorisation schemes. From "Alkali metals, ..." (by metallic characteristics) you flip into "Superheavy elements", (by atomic mass). That is the same as sorting a heap of vegetables by color in the morning and the rest, in afternoon, by size. -DePiep (talk) 13:03, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

You might like to ask WikiProject_Elements about adding extra category names to the info box for each element. For example, gold's Element category ony shows as transition metal, but it is also a coinage metal, a native metal, a noble metal, a platinum group metal, and a precious metal. Sandbh (talk) 23:02, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I'd support that. Could also have transactinide and superheavy metal. -DePiep (talk) 06:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)