Talk:Pierre Lorillard II

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A fact from Pierre Lorillard II appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 July 2008, and was viewed approximately 0 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Peter Lorillard may have been the first American publicly referred to as a "millionaire"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/July.

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Untitled

The illustration in the disinfobox is of the wrong Pierre Lorillard. --Wetman (talk) 19:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for noticing, it is Pierre Lorillard IV - should that be put in that article then? --Doug ^talk 22:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, maybe this is the correct illustration. The source where I got this sketch is dated 1888. Can not then be Pierre Lorillard IV nor Pierre Lorillard III since he was born 1796. Pierre Abraham Lorillard (Lorillard I), father to Lorillard Jr, was killed in 1776. Pierre and his brother George had stables and own several expensive race horses. --Doug ^talk 23:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But then again, I do believe it is Pierre Lorillard IV since Pierre Lorillard II died in 1843. My mistake. Removed images and will correct at Commons. --Doug ^talk 11:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References to the term "millionaire"

According to this reference On his death in 1843 one newspaper coined the word "millionaire" - which had never been used.
According to this reference The term "millionaire" was not coined until he died in 1843. At the time, an obituary writer, plagued by a deadline, minted the phrase and it passed into the language.
According to this reference The word "millionaire" in fact was coined only in 1843, when, upon the death of Peter Lorillard (snuff, banking, real estate) the newspapers needed a term to denote great affluence.
According to this reference The word "milionaire", in fact, was coined only in 1843, when upon the death of Peter Lorillard (snuff, banking, real estate) the newspapers needed a term to denote great affluence.
According to this reference Thus, when Pierre Lorillard, a New York snuff maker, banker, and landholder, died in 1843, his fortune of $1,000,000 or so, was considered so unusual that the word "millionaire", newly-coined, was initialized in the rounds of the press.
According to this reference The word "millionaire" was coined in 1843 by a newspaper reporter in an obituary of Pierre Lorillard, banker, landlord, and tobacconist.
According to this reference The word "millionaire" was first used. The term was included in a French newspaper obituary for Pierre Lorillard, a wealthy businessman who made his fortune selling tobacco and snuff.
According to Wecter, Dixon, The Saga of American Society: A Record of Social Aspiration, 1607-1937, page 113: ... death of Pierre Lorillard, snuff- and cigar-maker, the newspapers coined the word millionaire to denote such affluence.
According to this reference At the death of Pierre IV's grandfather in 1843, the term "millionaire" was first coined for his obituary.
A reference according to Cleveland Amory is on page 134 of By George Wein's book Myself Among Others: A Life in Music ISBN 0-3068135-2-1
A reference according to The American Wind Band: A Cultural History, p. 218 says it was the first time the term "millionaire" was used.
A reference according to The Encyclopedia of American Facts and Dates, ISBN 0-6900166-9-7, p. 207 says New word millionaire coined by newspapers in their reports of the death of Pierre Lorillard, banker, landlord, and tobacconist. ...
A reference according to The Draper Touch: The High Life and High Style of Dorothy Draper, Prentice Hall Press 1988, p. 32 The first man to be called a millionaire was Pierre Lorillard, the tobacco king, in 1843.
A reference according to The Plungers and the Peacocks By Dana Lee Thomas on page 71 The term "millionaire" had not been coined until Pierre Lorillard, the cigar and snuff maker, died in 1843.
A reference according to The Almanac of Anniversaries ISBN 0-8743667-5-5 By Kim Long on page 21 The word millionaire was first used. The term was included in a French newspaper obituary for Pierre Lorillard, a wealthy businessman who made his fortune ...
A reference according to The New York Times Encyclopedic Almanac 1970 By Lee Foster on page 618 ... great-great-grandson of Pierre Lorillard, the man on whose death ... 1843 the word "millionaire" was coined...
An additional French reference according to Famous first facts: A Record of First Happenings, Discoveries, and Inventions (International Edition 2000), ISBN 0-8242-0958-3, p. 37 item 1443 Pierre Lorillard: Upon his death in 1843, a French obituary summed up his lavish, nouveau-riche style of life with the term "millionaire", making him the first person so described. --Doug ^talk 14:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which just goes to show how inaccurate such references can be, since the word appears in a best-selling novel of 1826, another book of 1830, as well as a letter of 1816. Johnbod (talk) 15:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just going on these reference sources I found. Have you got reliable reference sources for those dates of books and "letter" you quote? Several of these references I found are almanacs, encyclopedias, and reference books (i.e. Famous First Facts & The New York Times Encyclopedic Almanac). --Doug ^talk 15:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The OED is reliable. The article Vivian Gray gives the book's publication date. You can see The Adventures of a Dramatist in facsimile here with its own publication date on front cover. It seems that one source stated erroneously that it was a neologism in 1843 and loads of other people picked it up from there! It's an education to us all in how easy it is for a non-fact to spread through perfectly respectable sources. But I really don't think the OED would have got it wrong! PamD (talk) 15:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And the Byron letter is quoted here - we can't see the whole book, but its title is "Byron, a Self-portrait: letters and diaries, 1798 to 1824". PamD (talk) 15:42, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We really can't doubt the OED as a reliable source, and see

Vivian Grey at Project Gutenberg.^[1] The word evidently came in from French in about the 1820s. Doug, you'll have to bite the bullet! Xn4 (talk) 16:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There doesn't seem to be a French Wiki article, but the German one gives the first use in French to John Law (economist) in 1719. Johnbod (talk) 19:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ "...Let me see: I should certainly like to act Wolsey; but the thousand and one chances against me! And truly I feel my destiny should not be on a chance. Were I the son of a millionaire, or a noble, I might have all. Curse on my lot! that the want of a few rascal counters, and the possession of a little rascal blood, should mar my fortunes!"

O.K., I left the article stand as PamD changed it. Submitted then alternate hooks for DYK. --Doug ^talk

I've just found it used (with 2 "n"s) by an American in 1837, albeit in "Recollections of Europe": James Fennimore Cooper here. He's describing American society, comparing it with French, when he says "even the successful politician is but a secondary man in ordinary society in comparison with the millionnaire", though he does italicise it as perhaps a foreign word! Not sure which of the DYK tags we can be sure of, really, but won't argue it out on that page. If Websters or any other US dictionary has historical usage info like OED it would be fascinating to know what it says! PamD (talk) 11:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And with 2 "n"s it had made it into the dictionary (in England) by 1833: here. Enough, must get on with the rest of life now! Wikiholicism threatens. PamD (talk) 11:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But then I spotted that Thomas Jefferson used "Millionary" in 1786! See Millionaire. PamD (talk) 11:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "...Let me see: I should certainly like to act Wolsey; but the thousand and one chances against me! And truly I feel my destiny should not be on a chance. Were I the son of a millionaire, or a noble, I might have all. Curse on my lot! that the want of a few rascal counters, and the possession of a little rascal blood, should mar my fortunes!"

[1]