Talk:Prince Ferfried of Hohenzollern

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I question if this person is really a prince, since he was born after Germany became a republic. The IMDB and racing car website call him "Ferfried von Hohenzollern", and titles of German nobility were abolished in 1919. PatGallacher (talk) 18:53, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia articles aren't based on how official a name is but upon how widely used it is in the language of the Encyclopedia. Changes of articles on persons of royal descent are usually controversial and should be done by move request. FactStraight (talk) 02:07, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 11:06, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Prince Ferfried of Hohenzollern → Ferfried von Hohenzollern – Common name, used by IMDB and racing car result website, also German titles of nobility abolished in 1919. PatGallacher (talk) 11:50, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is, or at least originally was, my translation of the German Wikipedia article de:Ferfried Prinz von Hohenzollern. The exact literal translation of the German article title is "Ferfried Prince of Hohenzollern". I felt in 2009 that idiomatically that should be "Prince Ferfried of Hohenzollern". I have no objection to calling it "Prince Ferfried von Hohenzollern" or "Ferfried, Prince of Hohenzollern" etc. if there's some consensus or policy basis for leaving the "von" untranslated. Whatever IMDB or sports websites might say, the more reliable sources do tend to call him a "Prince" (e.g. Die Welt here) and do I think that should remain in the title.—S Marshall T/C 14:50, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose reliable English language sources such as the Times and Independent newspapers call him Prince Ferfried of Hohenzollern.[1][2] - dwc lr (talk) 14:56, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Although official titles of German nobility are abolished, they remain in the popular imagination as an object of some light amusement (as the sources produced by DWC LR indicate.) Thus, they can qualify under COMMONNAME, irrespective of their official status. It seems the case here that Prince Ferfried's royal lineage is at least partially responsible for the noteworthiness of his career; that is, press sources document him more extensively because he is a Hohenzellern. Given the circumstances, the current article title is appropriate. Xoloz (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Nobody ever believed that Emperor Norton was legally an imperial monarch, yet Wikipedia refers to him as such because that's how he's best known in English. "Burke's Guide to the Royal Family" of 1973 (pp. 234-235) and Daniel Willis's 2002 "The Descendants of King George I of Great Britain" (p.134), just to name two English-language reliable sources, both accord Ferfried the prefix, without qualification, of "Prince" although they do not do so for his children, since his marriage had lacked dynastic authorization. Clearly, English-language sources refer to him as a prince, and do so on an editorially selective basis. FactStraight (talk) 20:56, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.