Talk:Queen of Hearts (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland)

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.

Fictional characters

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character articles

Novels: Fantasy / 19th century Low‑importance

	Novels portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Fantasy task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by 19th century task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Children's literature Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Children's literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Children's literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Children's literatureWikipedia:WikiProject Children's literatureTemplate:WikiProject Children's literaturechildren and young adult literature articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks you can do:

Here are some open tasks for WikiProject Children's literature, an attempt to create and standardize articles related to children's literature. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks.

Add {{Portal|Children's literature}} to the See also section of related articles.
Tag the talk pages of related articles with {{WikiProject Children's literature}}
Join WikiProject Children's literature and list yourself as a Participant in the project.
Cleanup: A cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category, the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.
Deletion discussions: listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature
Notability: Articles with notability concerns, listed at WikiProject Notability
Rate the Unassessed articles in the Children's literature WikiProject.
References: Add references to Unreferenced BLPs.
Requested articles: Create a requested article on literature
Stubs: Improve a stub-class article

edit

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Untitled

Why is Lewis Carroll denominated as a "mathematician" in this article?

Because he was a mathematics lecturer at Oxford for 26 years - it was his principle occupation. Apepper 11:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone get a picture of the Queen of Hearts from the book (John Tenniel's illustration) and/or from the Disney cartoon? I think they would be more beneficial to the article than the current one of Miss Piggy as the QOH. I think both the original drawing and the Disney one are what most people remember.Rt66lt 17:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've gotten one from the original book.Rt66lt 17:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

   -In the 16 years since this request, has anyone attempted this?

John Tenniel inspiration for Queen of Hearts image

I've been told that Tenniel based his image of the Queen of Hearts on a stained glass window in Long Melford Church, Suffolk - I took a photograph of the window and this is below:

Queen of Hearts original from Long Melford

To my eyes, it is similar but can anyone provide a citation for this window being used? If so I'll add the image to the article.

Apepper 11:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On a similar note, under the "Origins" section it says that Sir John Tenniel's illustration was "clearly" based on Queen Victoria, and that Dodgeson/Carroll intended it that way. I have no doubt that there are supposed to be overtones of Queen Victoria in there, but was it really Carroll's decision to make it so? I have no doubt that he had a say in what the illustrations should and should not depict, and which ones should appear in his books, but Tenniel was a celebrated satirist in his day, and I can't help thinking it was more his intention that adults should see the resemblance than Carroll's...

Not050 (talk)Not050Not050 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:16, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that under the "Origins" section that it should also be noted how the queen resembles the queen from the Queen of Hearts poem (the knave stole some tarts etc.). If I remember correctly, Alice quotes some of the poem during the trial in the first book. Pallid Sky (talk) 21:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Origins

We need a realible source for this addition:

The Queen probably symbolizes Queen Margaret of the House of Lancaster. During the Hundred Years’ War, also known as the War of the Roses, a red rose was the symbol of House Lancaster. Their rivals, the House of York, had a white rose for their symbol. This explains the gardeners' painting the white roses red.

I've seen several documentaries that liken the Queen of Hearts in the story to Queen Victoria, but I am unable to find any source (reliable or otherwise) that makes any connection to Queen Margaret. I agree the red and white roses in the story might be a reference to the War of the Roses, but I think we need a source before we start adding original research to the article.

Although I have heard/read about the Queen Victoria similarities, I've done some quick searching and haven't been able to find an online source to support this claim either.

The Queen is clearly a caricature of Queen Victoria, with elements of reality that Dodgson felt correctly would make her at once instantly recognisable to parents reading the story to children, and also fantastical enough to make her unrecognisable to children.

Her identity was hammered home for the purposes of popular culture in the 1966 live-action film, where she and the King of Hearts are portrayed without any attempt at fantasy, or disguise as to their true natures or personality.

I've temporarily changed the wording on the article page to be more neutral and to give other editors time to cite any sources they may have about either of these claims. If no reliable sources can be provided, I'm going to recommend that the entire section should be removed, lest we begin to invite editors to start adding every queen throughout history because "They both wore crowns" or "They both were married to a King", etc., etc. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 01:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if this qualifies as 'a reliable source' but there is an article by CW Giles, Punch, August 15, 1928 comparing the Queen of Hearts to Queen Margaret (and the Alice books to the Wars of the Roses.) You can see the relevant section of the article here: http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/explain/alice808.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.214.128 (talk) 09:30, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Witch archetype

The character of the Red Queen and the Queen of Hearts are both better described as archetypes. Don't see that word here at all. Sadly this understanding is not directly proposed at all in this page. Robert Bly has an excellent lecture on the witch energy, Baba Yaga, and presents an encounter between a male encountering a witch and how to survive it. It would best be used to describe archetypes and especially these feminine dark archetypes- found in women of course, but also the source of significant concern in men- the care and maintenance especially!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4E02:9580:D9D4:6281:CF46:6AD5 (talk) 07:51, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]