Talk:Rafael Eitan

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sabbutnik or Jewish?[edit]

you can not be both, which is he? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.66 (talk) 03:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

That car was wrecked by a wave? With a pointy dent in the roof, an intact right rear side window and frame, and still in a nicely parked kind of position? I ain't buying it. Kwantus 21:29, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)

Hoax quotes[edit]

I have searched NY times and didnt find any of the quotes.Apperantly they false. http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=22&x_article=651

It's a bit more complicated than that. The NYTimes *did* report at least one of these quotes, but cast some doubt on its accuracy:

There is a widespread conviction among Palestinian Arabs that the Israelis want to make life miserable for them and thereby drive them out of the territories.
This was reinforced by reported remarks Tuesday by the outgoing Chief of Staff of the Israeli Army, Lieut. Gen. Rafael Eytan. Israeli radio, television and newspapers quoted him as telling Parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that for every incident of stone-throwing by Arab youths, 10 settlements should be built. When we have settled the land, he was quoted as saying, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle.'

(David K. Shipler, "Most West Bank Arabs Blaming U.S. for Impasse", New York Times, 13 April 1983, A3.)

The same quote appears in Anthony Lewis, "Abroad at home; Hope against Hope", New York Times, 17 April 1983, A4 and David K. Shipler, "Israel's Military Chief Retires and Is Replaced by His Deputy", New York Times, 20 April 1983, A8 and David K. Shipler, The Israeli Army signs a Political Truce New York Times, May 15, 1983

The second quote may be a hoax, or it may simply be improperly sourced.

CJCurrie 03:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Update: I've found the source for the second quote. This is exactly how it appears in the search engine that I checked:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that ... I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it". Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." - Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, as reported in the New York Times dated 14 April 1983, "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return."

(Nasrine R. Karim, "All-consuming hatred", The Independent, 31 October 2003, page # not listed.)

Karim's article consists primarily of these and similar quotes, attributed to various Israeli leaders. Most of the quotes in the article are real; some are not. Sharon's supposed "We the Jewish people" quote has been widely discredited as an anti-Semitic fabrication, although this fact does not necessarily invalidate the "We openly declare" quote. (Please note that I'm not accusing Karim or the Independent of anti-Semitism in reprinting the former quote.)

I presume that the "We openly declare" quote is here attributed to Eitan, although the awkward structure of the paragraph makes it possible that it's actually attributed to Sharon. Several anti-Zionist websites have attributed it to Eitan, while several pro-Israel websites are of the view that it's a complete fabrication.

The disputed quote certainly does not appear in the New York Times of 14 April 1983. Does anyone have access to back copies of Yediot Ahronot? If so, could they check the edition of 13 April 1983?

For that matter, does anyone know when the quote first appeared online? CJCurrie 04:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Glad to say I found the original Yedioth Ahronoth news item here. It's entirely different than cited by BBC 20 years later, as it relates specifically to the issue of stone throwing on vehicles in the West Bank. However, the miserable comparison to drugged cockroaches is there alright. —88.152.90.110 17:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Disputed statement[edit]

He personally used a bazooka to destroy several advancing Syrian tanks.

Note regarding the above statement about the "Rambo" performance of "Raful" (general Eitan) during the October 1973 Golan Heights counter offensive. Having first hand involvement in that campaign, I have every reason to believe that this story is both fabricated and exaggerated. I suggest that this part of the article would be deleted. In actuality, most of the advancing tanks were stopped by the Israeli Air force as well as the tank crews of the 188th tank division and fragments of other armored units (see also Avigdor Kahalani) that were stationed near Quneitra at the time. In addition, two infantry companies (plugot) of battalion 13 (Gideon) of the Golani brigade, occupying the strongholds (mutzavim) of the Golan Line northern section were never overrun by the advancing Syrians. The Mutzavim kept firing on the Syrian troops and provided continuous intelligence reports to the rear command posts and guided artillery shelling of syrian rear echelons throughout the first few days days of the Syrian offensive. Soldiers would frequently climb out of the trenches to fire bazooka rockets to deter tank movement against their positions. However, there were no officers in the strongholds, above the rank of a lieutenant (platoon leader). Generally, the Israeli army does not have "super-heros"; rather, a lot of blood, sweat, tears and determination, contributed by simple line soldiers, led to stopping the Syrian armored troop advancements, allowing the Northern Command enough time to organize the reserve units to begin the counter offensive into Syrian territory, on the fourth day of the war. Critical-eye 04:55, 23 January 2008

Rafael or Refael?[edit]

Correct Hebrew is Refael. Suggest to change (or at least indicate at some point) elpincha (talk) 15:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)