Talk:Samurai Jack/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Samurai Jack was NOT the first cartoon with a flat visual style!

I took out the bit about how Samurai Jack has influenced the Incredibles credits and the X's. Really, guys, that's just silly. Does Ward Kimball or Mary Blair sound familiar to any of you? Little Leota 22:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

No. Robot Chicken (talk) 00:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Verify

Could someone verify this statement made on the main page.

"Samurai Jack refers to his attire as gi, not kimono."

Thanks Jack 23:09, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't honestly find evidence of that comment, so it was good to remove. It really doesn't matter towards the encyclopedic entry, but Jack's outfit seems to represent a variant of an aikidogi, consisting of a gi shirt, and a white hakama. Cybertooth85 16:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually his clothes are a single piece kimono as seen in some episodes, he doesn't wear a hakama. 213.186.224.253 11:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I HAVE weard him call it a Gi at some point(s), but I cannot remember when.
Season 2. Episode 24 to be precise. Jack says that the clothes which he has stolen from the burglar lack the comfort of his Gi. That's the only reference to his outfit i could find though. --76.25.53.185 (talk) 18:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Editing

Cleaned up many spelling typos and a few grammatical errors in abilities section.-- WkpdTed (talk · contribs) 16:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I just went through and added a bunch of missing commas -_- Lovok 14:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


"The Scotsman even saves Jack when Jack loses his memory due to the Sirens (whose songs have no effect on the Scotsman, as he compares their singing to "someone stepping on a lot o' cats". In a running gag with The Scotsman, he compares their singing to his wife's, which, according to him, is beyond perfection.)" Too many pronouns with not enough antecedents. Somebody with knowledge of the subject please correct. Please delete this comment afterwards. -Volpes 8/13/2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.88.70.226 (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment on audio track

I'd like to add the following somewhere in the article, but (a) can't find the proper place to add it, and (b) not sure whether it's appropriately NPOV (I obviously feel it's accurate, but that could be my POV speaking):

Although all episodes deliver an overall cinematic and solid visual experience, many scenes are quite minimalistic and cluttered in appearance; the audio track however is consistently powerful, well tuned and professionally produced, with very few exceptions.

What do you think? --Gutza T T+ 00:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, it's PoV, and unless it's cited, it doesn't matter if it's accurate or not. "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." (see Wikipedia:Verifiability). Cheers --Pak21 10:25, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough; as stated in the introductory paragraph above, that's one of the reasons why I asked before adding. Ok, can we find a NPOV way of delivering a "weaker" version of that idea? It is verifiable after all that the music includes a good deal for low-frequency sounds, that the voices are humorously well-chosen (I'm talking mostly about the accents), that the environmental sounds are well-engineered (footsteps, etc), and that the acting is good, no? --Gutza T T+ 11:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Movie

It says that no movie has been produced but I have the movie on VHS right now (2006) and I have had it for a while now. But it seems that it is more of a prequel. Is this the movie that they are refering to???? 65.60.164.62 18:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)(Jtervin just not signed in)

Here is the Amazon.com listing: [1]

The movie is made up from the first 3 episodes (afaik) -- Po0ky 18:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The real movie is still being made, despite no word for nearly 2 years now from Frederator studios. Fred Seibert, one of the company's founders, said in his blog in Dec. 2008 or Jan. 2009 that it was still in production and it's still in 'behind-the-scenes story work.' [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.194.41.159 (talk) 06:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Reception

Samurai Jack was included (somewhere in the 20's) on Channel Four's 100 Greatest Cartoons show. This should probably be included in the "Reception" subsection. Kelvingreen 19:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Channels are differant for each state, city and provider you should be more specific...also I agree. rgoodermote 13:32, April 30, 2007 (UTC)

Channel Four, the British broadcaster. I think it's been added now anyway. Kelvingreen 20:28, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Toonami Jetstream

I edited the line "The show can be viewed at Toonami Jetstream Website" to include "North American viewers". Simply because there is bound to be confusion for people outside of NA hastily checking the site out and finding that it can only be viewed by North American viewers. --Captain Capatilism 16:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The Toonami Jetstream article says it's US only, rather than all North America, implying that Canadians can't see it - which is correct? 86.132.136.239 14:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Unless we can get some editors from outside the US (Canada or Otherwise) here to refute it, I'm going to assume that this is US only, but that's a discussion for the Jetstream talk page. Hewinsj 02:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Jack and Sparta

I've removed some comments in the section about an episode where Jack interacts with Spartan warriors. A previous user had added reference to the Miller comics on the topic of Battle of Thermopylae (and the movie 300) in a way that noted the similar topic that the cartoon and comic focused on, but did not demonstrate that there was in fact any influence by Miller's work on the SJ show. Subsequent edits had tried to refine these comments a bit, but I'm afraid the effect is worse: "perhaps coincidentally" is exceedingly weasel-wordy. While the article does demonstrate that Tartakovsky has mentioned being influenced by Miller's "Ronin," no evidence of a connection between Miller's 300 and Samurai Jack is shown. Let's, then, leave this bit out until some source comes up that can demonstrate an influence. The Spartans have entered into foundational myth and legend in western culture, and are referenced frequently on many fronts - we should be warry of trying to crowbar a specific connection between two instances of this unless we can find a clear source for it.Dxco 17:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I attempted to work with this in the Cultural References section because it felt better here than in Trivia. The episode description inside the DVD packaging states that Jack does run into 300 Spartans, so I listed that and maintained the info about the historical battle that was already given in the article. I was careful not reference Frank Miller, his book, or the movie for the reasons you gave about foundational myth. I also posted a screen cap of a Spartan from the episode. Hewinsj 14:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
That would be my fault. I found that section to be quite scrappy, so I tidied it up and expanded it with some information on the Battle of Thermopylae. I also added the bit about Miller, as I thought it worth mentioning given the Ronin connection. I do think it's a bit strong to call it "weasel-wordy", but I accept that it is probably conjecture, so yeah, leave it out. Apologies if I caused any offence; sometimes enthusiasm gets in the way. :) Kelvingreen 21:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, the creators acknowledge the direct influence of Miller's 300 in the dvd commentary, so I'll work on putting the information back in, citing the sources appropriately, of course. I may have to move the section to somewhere else in the article though, as Tartakovsky fingers 300 as the influence, rather than the historical battle itself. And any pointers on how to cite it would be handy. Kelvingreen 22:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
First off, let me say no offense taken. Your initial stance was cautious in the face of uncited facts and not that far off from what I would have stated. Now we know and can update with details so the system works.
For what it is I like this section where it's at because even if it was learned through Frank Miller it is a myth, but that's just my opinion. It helps the cultural references section not look so sparse, but it could also go in the Trivia section. If you do update it to include the 300 info don't take out the details about the historical battle itself, which is a great link.
As for citing, I've been updating with episode citations, and once I figured out how to use them started including as many detail fields as I felt were useful. One of those is called minutes, which shows where in the episode the information being cited falls. I'll update the ref-tag under this paragraph to include that and once you have a quote from the DVD make a new citation and include the time that the quote occurred. Once all that's done we can decide where to put it. Hewinsj 04:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's the quote (from Tartakovsky). As it's from a commentary, it's a bit rambling.
I always loved epic stories and epic period pieces like Spartacus and Ben Hur, all that kind of stuff, and I definitely wanted to do something with that for one of the Jack episodes. And then, I don't know how many years before we did this, Frank Miller released this comic book called The 300 [sic], which told the tale of the old Greek, the realistic story of the Battle of the 300, where they fought like ten thousand of Persians at the gates of (I forget the real...) Thermopolis [sic]. So I wanted to do a story based on that which the comic book was based on, and in the comic book he did this very stylised treatment of it, for some of it, where he did a lot of loose watercolour painting and a lot of graphic images over that watercolour. So I wanted to do it, and the best guys fit for action....
After that it moves on to other subjects. This is right at the beginning, over the opening credits, but I'll get a more precise time a bit later.
As for where to put it, I thought I'd leave the section on the historical event as is, and put the information relating to 300 specifically in the same paragraph (under Style) that mentions Miller's Ronin, to tie the Miller influences together. Kelvingreen 08:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds fine. The existing info can stay where it is as he wanted to write a story about that event, and the details on style can be used to expand on the Miller paragraph as his design was influenced by Miller's art in 300. If your going to use a long quote, separate the quote itself from the paragraph and use the block quote formatting (from the Plot section of this article). Some of that could be trimmed down, but I'll leave it up to you. Hewinsj 14:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, the quote is a rambling mess, and I wasn't going to use it at all, instead just citing the part of the dvd where he says it (21 seconds into the commentary on that episode, incidentally). There doesn't appear to be a satisfying way of including the information, but I do think it should be included. I'll think more on it. Kelvingreen 17:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I added a small amount of information on the influence of 300 into the Style section, but I haven't included any of Tartakovsky's quote, as it's too unwieldy to put in (I did consider putting the whole quote in as a footnote, but it would look terrible). I have created a footnote including the point in the commentary at which they talk about 300, however. Kelvingreen 21:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
It looks great. I switched the image that's there to make the text lime up, but you got the point across without going into too much detail. That should take care of it. The citation looks good too. Hewinsj 00:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad we got that sorted out! It was a bit like pulling teeth, for which I apologise. Kelvingreen 10:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Not a problem. I don't mind working with people as long as they don't mind working with me. In this case things sound better since you've at least heard the quote and have a source to put with it. Again, nice job. Hewinsj 01:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Awards & Recognition

I added info on the shows Emmy history in the form of a Wiki table. I based it on the details at the IMDB's award page for this show, and cross referenced with the Award Search tool at the emmy Website, so while I can't find too many sources to easily cite yet everything lines up. I just kind of made it on the fly, so any ideas for improvements? Also, should we also add details on it's performance at the Annie Awards? It's supposed to be a big deal to people in the animation field, but I personally haven't heard of them before. Hewinsj 01:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning that up. The DVD box and commentary imply that the show won its only Emmy for Jack and the Spartans (which is why I put that bit in), but it seems a bit more complex than that. So thanks again for clearing that up. Kelvingreen 10:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I didn't want you to think I was stepping on your toes but everything I could find beyond IMDB seemed to indicate that it was Birth of Evil that year.. Jack & the Spartans did win, but the year was off. I remembered that Birth of Evil won because I happened to have the awards show on at the right time back then, I just couldn't remember which year it happened. If I can I'll try to find references that I can link to, or if all else fails I'll just reference that search page.Hewinsj 01:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
No worries. I was just going by the DVD packaging and I don't have Season Three yet! Kelvingreen 22:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Article assessment

I've rated this article as B class - most of the important information is present but there are a few tags that need to be resolved. Good job on the referencing, however, I'd like to see more secondary sources also. "Legacy" is perhaps an overstatement as a header - influence might be more appropriate. A critical response section is missing - are there any reviews of the show the article could discuss?

I've rated it as mid on the importance scale because of the awards recognition the show has received.--Opark 77 09:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

DVD Covers

I see these are on the To Do list. What do we need to get, exactly? I have the first two seasons on DVD, and would be happy to scan them. PNG format, I'd guess, but what size? Kelvingreen 20:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking, but I can't find any good examples to use. I would say keep them around 110px (smaller if it distorts the box). Hewinsj 02:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

"Genndy's New Project"

What is "Genndy's New Project" on the Season 4 DVD? Hotdoglives 02:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Auntie Momo external link

I always see people talking about how external links have to meet certain qualifications. What qualifications does that site have, especially since the Big Cartoon Database is already there as an external link? I'm have nothing against the site but it's one of many sites that really have no business being named on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megagents (talkcontribs) 21:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed and removed as per WP:EL. AnmaFinotera 02:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Cartoon Network link

Why is the UK version of the Cartoon Network minisite listed in the external links, and not the US version? Samurai Jack is an American cartoon. Unless this was the best English-language "official" site at the time this link was added (Cartoon Network does seem to reconfigure their sites quite often), I don't see why this link was not included. Having said that, if we do add the American version to the links section, should the other link be removed? As of the time I write this, the .com site has more informative content than the .co.uk site. B7T (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to remove it, all to do with one user who went around many CN shows and added links to the UK site (which is incredibly poor) and the VOD and games content site supercartoonnetwork.co.uk for no reason as they're not really all that signifigant in content or application. Some of these links are around but nobody has removed them yet, like this one. Switch it to the main CN site, it should be the US version linked from here. --treelo talk 20:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Misleading link: Bonus Stage

The article mentions an homage to Samurai Jack in a defunct internet cartoon called Bonus Stage, but the hyperlink for this term leads to the article for the video game concept with the same name. Is there an article on Wikipedia about the cartoon? If not, perhaps the brackets should be removed from the term. B7T (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

A search for any articles on the internet cartoon yields nothing. I'd cut the reference personally if the episode in question can't be referred to on another site. -treelo talk 20:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture

The 'popular culture in Samurai Jack' section is junk - just trivia & POV analogies. Since the only citations are to the show itself, I'm assuming that these statements of what something is a reference too are just observations by whoever wrote this (I.E. original research / POV). Unless they can be verified with a third-party source drawing these comparisons, they should be deleted. Weasel Fetlocks (talk) 17:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Generally, "in popular culture" sections in articles don't consist of much more than trivia, POV and OR and don't do much for the article. You can cut them out when you like, doubt anyone will care too much. treelo radda 17:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

No List of Episodes?

That could sure be useful in this page. SuperChencho (talk) 07:49, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

List of Samurai Jack episodes maybe? treelo radda 10:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

What about Samurai Jack's mom?

I think she should be included as a secondary character since like her husband appears in more then one episode and might as well play a key part in it other then being his mom, like rescuing young Jack from Aku(samurai Jack)'s destruction on his country,Japan, and giving him his sword. So please think about including her on the list of scondary characters.Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.54.71.51 (talk) 22:06, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Key word there is "might", given her role is minor at best and has marginally more importance than his father's role (also minor) I think it'd be hard to justify either parent being in the article at all. treelo radda 23:02, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Film Announced

Can someone add it neatly to the main page? http://www.kungfucinema.com/j-j-abrams-to-produce-samurai-jack-film-11829 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.97.6.43 (talk) 03:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Where is the dispute?

I cannot seem to find anywhere on this talk page that specifically disputes the facts presented in the article. Removing tag. Mopenstein (talk) 03:31, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Cameo appearence

I was looking back at episodes of Samurai Jack and came across an episode in which an animal like hunter is attacking Jack... I believe his name was "Huntor." I didn't think about it much until I recently saw an episode of Dexter's Lab. This same lion like hunter in the Samurai Jack previously appeared in the short Dial M for Monkey. I was just wondering why this was not in the article... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.43.212.51 (talk) 12:43, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a "avoid trivia sections" policy, the reference you refer to can be found in it's episode page -- Jack versus Mad Jack. Jack 21:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I've moved this section to the bottom of the discussion page due to recent events involving the topic at hand.
I've seen the episode in question and the resemblance is uncanny. I believe this info should go in the "Setting" section, as well as the following info (already there) and some pictures:
"Several visual allusions, such as a wide angle view of the city and a ruined billboard advertising dog food, seem to imply that Samurai Jack takes place in the ruined City of Townsville in a dystopian future of the Powerpuff Girls universe." (although edited to not imply it takes place in only the Powerpuff Girls city)
If you google "samurai jack powerpuff girls same universe" you get results such as this one: http://www.snapbuzz.com/image/16637/
The "Huntor" character from Dextor's Lab appears in Samurai Jack Season 1 Episode 8 at 9:06-9:10, 9:19-9:23, 9:26, 9:30-9:32, and 9:52-9:54 into the episode; He also appears in Dextor's Laboratory Season 1 Episode 19, before 9 minutes. He even has the same elephant. I took screenshots from both episodes and made a gallery here (first and last images are from Dextor's Lab): http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/n84os6qlx76aki5jngjxyxyavdki3r7r/
Also, from connections to these two shows, you can connect them to a lot of different cartoon network shows (see this thread I found: http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3670180&postcount=2)98.127.168.159 (talk) 06:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
It's tough to add images to articles to fictional series like this without specific reason because most of the work is copyrighted. In the influences section there is an image of one of the 300 Spartans and the Lone Wolf and Cub because they demonstrate artistic and thematic influences on the series. Showing an image of one of the futuristic cities would require some sort of commentary showing why that specific image is important from an academic standpoint. Simply stating that both take place in the same universe because of a billboard or that SJ had a cameo from another Cartoon Cartoon character would likely be considered as trivia and removed. Without citation from a credible source, a statement like that (regardless of whether there are images or not) would probably be considered original research and would also be removed. Hewinsj (talk) 06:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Timeline

I'd like to get a timeframe as to the events of Samurai Jack, because it seems like an important piece of information. I remember in Season 1 Episode 3 near the beginning, the dogs Jack is talking to use a device that detects how old his particles are, dating him as "25 B.A." (Before Aku). I believe this means he was 25 years old when Aku took over/first reappeared. It may also mean that 25 years lapsed between Jack fighting Aku and Aku taking over the world (either his particles were pulled out of the timeline 25 years before Aku took over the world, or he was 25 years old when Aku came back).

He also fights an ancient viking warrior in Season 1 Episode 10. At 11:23 he says "A millennia has passed, and now my goal is within my grasp". At 16:02 he says "Through countless eons I lay still" (before he was able to control lava). This means that it has been at least 1,000 years since Aku took over, but may have been much longer depending on his meaning. It's hard to be sure, but he could be saying "A millennia has passed" since he was defeated by Aku, or "A Millennia has passed" since he gained control of lava and set up his traps (i.e. a millennia since he formulated his plan). This places the time since Aku sent Jack forward in time between 1,000 years and "countless eons" + 1,000 years.

One last point to consider is that dogs have had time to evolve into intelligent animals. Whether naturally or by manipulation of other species/Aku is impossible to say, but does imply a long time. 98.127.168.159 (talk) 06:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

If you can find an academic, critic, or interview by the creators outlining this information it might be possible to add it to the plot section. Otherwise we are unable to develop and add the information without references to back it up. That would be considered Original Research. Without some source who has authority on the subject spelling everything out, we can't add it. Hewinsj (talk) 06:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Movie?

Is there anything currently known about the movie aside that it's in production? - ZuTheSkunk (talk) 08:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Same makers of Star Wars:Clone Wars?

I am pretty sure that the people who made this show had something to do with Star Wars:Clone Wars back in 2004. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.46.229 (talk) 05:54, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

branislav bisevac

Branislav Bisevac je naj pametniji covek na svetu on je mnogo pametan puno puno puno veoma pametan a jovanovic janko nije pametan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.2.156.148 (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Secondary Sources

A couple related articles and interviews that I've been able to find. Could be put to use in the article.

I've also found a commentary on the series by Charles Solomon who writes for the Los Angeles Times that can be found here. It's a recording, and if I can I'll try to insert some citations into the article with time stamps of specific comments. Hewinsj (talk) 14:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Samurai Jack - Other Media - Fan Sites

Hi, (The Devil's Advicate), I was looking at the article after being away from it, and I noticed that an edit that I made mentioning Fan Sites a couple of weeks ago had been removed by Paper Luigi as not "encyclopedic or noteworthy," then reverted by another, anonymous reader. However, you yourself RE-removed the revert using the justification that "these are not reliable sources."

I wanted to know why you consider these sources, all real fan sites with references given, as unreliable. I would revert the edit again on my own but I fear that it would turn the whole thing into an edit-war. I would rather hear from you, and perhaps find a way to get you to just restore the section yourself. If you want to know my own history at Wikipedia, of course, you can just look me up. Thanks! Playerpage (talk) 20:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Whether they are real fan sites or not is beside the point. It is not uncommon that a show has fans, that said fans congregate to discuss a show, and that after the cancellation of the show there are fans wanting more episodes. Fan sites are not reliable for the purpose of establishing this as something significant. Some shows, such as Star Trek, develop a fan following that is highly notable and the following gets mentioned in secondary sources. In some cases a campaign to bring back a show also becomes noteworthy enough for secondary sources to discuss it. Fan sites and personal blogs are not sufficient.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:00, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

But why not mention them? I'm sorry, I fail to see how they would not be significant. The whole purpose of the section [Other Media] is to mention ways in which the show has moved beyond television. By your standard, the video games of Samurai Jack should not be mentioned, or really, its comics. Yes, these were created by professionals, but they became possible because of the fans who supported the show. And it is definitely the fans, as noted by Gennedy, who have kept the show alive in the minds of the media to the point that a movie deal is still being discussed, even today. Cheers! Playerpage (talk) 21:10, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism

Can somebody please stop changing the content on the List of Samurai Jack episodes page? It was fine the way it was. Also, I need help fixing them back to their original state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StephenCezar15 (talkcontribs) 11:41, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Samurai Jack/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

3 images, 20 citations, enough to get a possible GA class, still needs a cleanup. JJ98 (Talk) 22:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I've downgraded to C-Class to due to issues tagged on the article. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 22:17, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Last edited at 22:17, 3 August 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 15:44, 1 May 2016 (UTC)