Talk:Sandy Denny

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sandy Denny article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as High-importance).

Roots music: British folk rock High‑importance

	Music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Roots music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to roots, folk and traditional folk music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Roots musicWikipedia:WikiProject Roots musicTemplate:WikiProject Roots musicRoots music articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the British folk rock task force (assessed as High-importance).

London Low‑importance

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women in Music Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

References and sources

I wrote the first few sentences of this article. Her early life is documented in "Irish folk Trad and Blues: A Secret History" by Colin Harper and Trevor Hodgett. (2004). Ogg 11:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Among the two books listed and the Memorial Page linked in the article, I think there are enough references to meet encyclopedic criteria. Therefore, I'm removing the This article does not cite its references or sources. You can help Wikipedia by including appropriate citations. note at the beginning.--RattBoy 00:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would mention that Sandy also appears on the song "Battle of Evermore" by Led Zeppelin, on the Led Zeppelin IV album.

Reinhard Zierke's British Folk resource centre held a lot of information on the more troubled aspects of Sandy's life. Unfortunately the resource vanished in late 2005 and I cannot find the same information elsewhere on the internet. If anyone knows the details of her later life (detailed references of her career, how alcoholism and depression affected her life and career, etc) then please share them with us. I seem to remember one such issue contributed to her fatal accident, but some light on the matter would be appreciated.

Last I looked, Zierke's content was still accessible via The Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php - Useful resource. Still someone ought to ask Zierke if he'll let them host the content elsewhere. THere is (or was) also a not-quite-finished biography available somewhere on the internet. Apparently the writer had a falling out with the publisher, who re-assigned to the project to Clinton Heylin. --Chris 22:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Who knows where the time goes"

This is surely one of the best written articles Wikipedia has to offer. Thank you. --Peter Eisenburger 20:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"the pre-eminent British folk rock singer"

This is sourced. If anyone else lays claim to that epithet, it can be mentioned (and sourced) in their own article. This isn't a talent competition. --Rodhull andemu 23:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

== A sourced comment is fair enough, especially when it reads as it does at present, "who has been described as "the pre-eminent British folk rock singer" (my emphasis) rather than simply making what appeared to be a POV statement.--Phil Wardle (talk) 00:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the counterpart of this article on the Italian Wikipedia is a featured article, despite their somewhat laxity with non-free images. This one isn't even a good article yet, and it deserves to be. I've already tackled some of the albums, but a major rewrite to standard is on the way. --Rodhull andemu 00:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article is a good one and can only get better...though it's a pity WE can't get a better photo of Sandy and maybe one with her in the Fairport line-up. I'll drop Dave Swarbrick a line and see if he can put us onto some that have no licensing issues (reminds me, I must have a look at Swarb's article). Though there is some irony in all this for me. The only concert I have ever walked out of in my life was the Fairport Convention one at Dallas Brooks Hall in Melbourne (1973 I think). Sandy and Swarbs were both really pissed/stoned and very dismissive of the audience. I think it was the last gig of the tour and they all wanted to murder each other. Lord knows, I've played gigs like that myself, lol. I stirred Swarbs about it when he stayed at my place one time....payback was fun ;-) --Phil Wardle (talk) 00:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So you were 12 years old and somehow got to Melbourne? Or is the info on your userpage wrong? But thanks for letting us know what great mates you all are...(!)

(ec)Well I hope it's got a lot better since I started on it. I've tabulated the discography & created the template, and the next bit is to expand & split the "Professional Career" section into logical phases. A free pic would be brilliant. I last saw the old Fairport also in 1973, but in Liverpool and well remember "Sloth" going almost heavy metal in the middle, and I think that version lasted nigh on fifteen minutes. Great days. --Rodhull andemu 00:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No photo on Dave Swarbricks page (and a pretty short article too)...so I have e-mailed him to try and get some photos of Sandy and his good self. --Phil Wardle (talk) 00:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just had a look at the Italian version of this article. The two photos that I checked the licence on state that they are "Licenza d’uso Autorizzazione esclusiva per Wikipedia" which suggest that we could use them legally on the English article as well. I'm not well versed with photo licensing for Wikipedia though, so I may well be in error. Whatever, there are some good shots on the Italian article, so it would be good if they were OK to use here. --Phil Wardle (talk) 01:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how it:Wiki interprets the fair-use exemption but that licence would not be good enough here. Free images must be totally free- that is, for others to take them and use them as they like. If Swarb had a picture for us, he'd have to basically relinquish all rights to it. That's the problem we have, that people might not want to do that. --Rodhull andemu 09:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm. Pity about those images on the Italian Wiki. On a brighter note, I had a reply from Dave Swarbrick waiting for me when I turned the confuser on this morning. To paraphrase, he said give it a week while he scrounges round to see what he can come up with. I had asked him to check with his mates to see what they have too, so we may well get some previously unpublished photos....or we may get nothing. Having noticed that there is no photo of Swarbs on his article here, I also stretched things a bit and asked him for some shots of himself just now in my reply to him. Fingers crossed. --Phil Wardle (talk) 23:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, Swarb's article is piss-poor and I've pencilled it in to tackle next. He deserves better. If he can't scan a photo & tart it up I can always do that, I've done it for Lindisfarne, Troy Donockley, The Enid and some other people I know. Let me know if he finds one we can use, you can always email me from "email this user" on my userpage and we can take it from there. Cheers for your efforts. --Rodhull andemu 23:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yeah, I was disappointed with the article on Swarb and was going to have a crack at improving it myself, though felt I really didn't have easy access to enough information on his career. It would be great if you could give it a going over...I could chip in maybe some stuff about his time in Oz and any technical stuff about his violin/s and his pioneering use of "electric" fiddle in those early days. If Swarb has any trouble scanning photos etc, I'll ask him (or his partner) to drop them into the nearest library and get them scanned and e-mailed to my wife, who is a senior reference librarian at the State Library here...all for free (quid pro quo among libraries). Then you or I can maybe tidy them up for inclusion here. Whatever, we shall see in a week or so. BTW, ironic about Lindisfarne...that's where I live near Hobart. :-)--Phil Wardle (talk) 00:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sward asked me to get back to him in a week or so, to see if he could dig up those photos of Sandy (also some of himself). I have just emailed him now, so am hoping for the best.--Phil Wardle (talk) 01:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your efforts, Phil. I've restored this thread because it should be kept and archived rather than being deleted. I've managed to get Unhalfbricking to Good Article status, and am gathering material for A Boxful of Treasures compilation, which is my next project. Then, this article should be the same, and I'll then get back to the mainstream Fairport Convention discography. Cheers. --Rodhull andemu 21:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who gives a shit about Richie Unterberger? There surely should be some quotes from more competent people be available. -- 217.85.50.162 (talk) 12:27, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Death

The article has a sentence that Denny died as a result of " substance abuse and uncertainty about her career path, but Jill Broun, a close friend, attributes the haemorrhage to a brain tumour." She died because of uncertainty about a career path? Either more needs to be said re what this means or this is old vandalism that stuck. Someone who knows what this sentence means - please amend. Thanks Spanglej (talk) 09:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The section titled 'Death' begins with a reference to Denny's worsening substance abuse. The fact that she had a substance abuse problem is never mentioned previously in the article. When did she begin experimenting with drugs and alcohol? What substances did she use? Was she ever treated? Perhaps, this is a topic for more discussion within the article. PhoePhoe (talk) 12:49, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, PhoePho; i will reword that abrupt jump into worsening substance abuse. It reminds me of the Mad Tea Party. You can't have a new cup unless you've already had a cup! 70.36.137.192 (talk) 06:59, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"She remains to this day..."

It seems rather odd to say

 She remains to this day the only guest vocalist on a Led Zeppelin album.

Since 1) She's dead; and 2) Led Zeppelin is disbanded.

She will *always* be the only guest vocalist on a Led Zeppelin album. Yea, verily, it shall remain ever true.

So why phrase it that way? - rob —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.156.138 (talk) 03:24, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tributes

I don't really know how to edit properly, but noted that fellow folk musician Bert Jansch's "Where Did My Life Go" is not mentioned. Reference is the book Dazzling Stranger by Colin Harper, page 266. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.21.140.2 (talk) 14:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Endorsers

Does it matter that that someone in the Sunday Express likes her work? Does it even matter that someone at allmusic likes her - the quote from his piece about her is neither informative nor interesting.

Why not just 'SD is widely regarded as...(etc.)' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notreallydavid (talk • contribs) 07:36, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality/POV issues in sixth paragraph

The sixth paragraphh has neutrality/POV issues but I'm not sure what should be done with the specific text:

Released in 1977, the album is now generally thought to be overproduced despite containing some of her finest compositions such as "I'm A Dreamer", "One Way Donkey Ride" and the classically-influenced "All Our Days".

Bumm13 (talk) 09:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Lady......?

On the photograph of her grave she is identified as "The Lady". It is not the first time I have seen her described thus, as if it was a title or something like it. I don't see anything to indicate that she had some kind of heritage as a member or relative of a member of the British peerage. Is it a title or something given as a kind of tribute to her or her memory? 2602:306:2420:4ED9:D49E:1E86:48B9:3800 (talk) 21:45, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It comes from the title and words to one of her songs, see here: https://genius.com/Sandy-denny-the-lady-lyrics Tony 1212 (talk) 11:37, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also, according to Mick Houghton's biography, "The Lady" was Trevor's pet name for Sandy, and it was Trevor who commissioned the gravestone (without consulting Sandy's parents). Letdorf (talk) 21:27, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Sandy Denny. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120406145415/http://www.mightyvillage.com:80/music/eps-singles/thea-gilmore-sandy-denny-london-goodnight/ to http://www.mightyvillage.com/music/eps-singles/thea-gilmore-sandy-denny-london-goodnight/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 23:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Who knows where the name goes?

Was "Denny" an assumed name, a stage name, an adoptive name, or what? Why didn't she use McLean, and why specifically the switch to "Denny"? I mean, she can call herself whatever she likes...just wondering if anyone has sourced info on the reason for the name change! 70.27.6.130 (talk) 16:24, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Denny was her surname (parents were Neil and Edna Denny), McLean was a middle name (from a grandparent's surname as I recall), not her surname Tony 1212 (talk) 11:40, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Sandy" being of course a Scottish (?) diminutive of Alexander (man), Alexandra (lady)... Tony 1212 (talk) 02:37, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"The Quiet Joys of Brotherhood" is not a traditional song

The second paragraph of § Solo career and final years includes:

the album also marked her last recording of a traditional song, "The Quiet Joys of Brotherhood" (words by Richard Fariña)

Obviously that's not a "traditional song" in the usual sense. Richard Fariña wrote the lyrics and

borrowed the melody from 'My Lagan Love,' a modal tune from Ulster, Northern Ireland.
(Quoting from a post by the pseudonymous "Ar Kay", in a thread "Origins: The quiet joy of brotherhood" on The Mudcat Cafe)

I don't know if these and other supporting posts in that thread qualify as reliable sources, so I'm not changing the article, but someone with greater expertise than mine should check this.

--Thnidu (talk) 04:36, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Led Zeppelin IV "rune"

It could be mentioned that she was the only person other than Led Zeppelin band members to be assigned a "rune" on the Led Zeppelin IV or "Zoso" album (three upright triangles meeting at a central point). AnonMoos (talk) 23:06, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's shown here. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:11, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]