Jump to content

Talk:Shibayama Railway

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Shibayama Railway. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:23, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Shibayama Railway/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: AlphaBetaGamma (talk · contribs) 06:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 14:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately tagged. I can't judge the reliabity of the sources so will take them on faith; the ones I can figure out look fine. [Added later: but see below in the spotchecks where questions have come up.] Spotchecks (footnote numbers refer to this version):

  • FN 8 cites "The 92.8 km (57.7 mi) Haneda run goes through tracks of 6 different rail lines and requires coordination among 4 operators, namely, Shibayama, Keisei Main, Keisei Oshiage, Toei Asakusa, Keikyū Main, and finally Keikyū Airport Line. During the run, the sign on the departure board always lists the destination as (Higashi Narita) Shibayama to avoid confusing the customers." I used Google Translate and can't see most of this in the source; can you quote whatever the text is you're using to support this?
  • FN 2 cites "The construction of the railway was strongly demanded by Shibayama residents". Verified.
  • FN 17 cites "and Seinō Railway operates the shortest freight-only railway line at the length of 2.0 km". The source says it was once 2.0 km but is now only 1.3 km.
  • FN 19 cites "The company formerly used Keisei 3600 series leased from Keisei Electric Railways during its initial time until 2013, which was given back to the company. During its time as a rolling stock used by the Shibayama Railway, the train color was changed from Keisei's blue and red color scheme to red and green, the color used in the company's logo." Verified.

I'll pause there till these issues are resolved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, give me a few hours to fix this. I guess some sources were outdated for some reason. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:16, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For FN8 - This was in the article before I expanded it without any references. Better remove that.
Fixing FN17. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced FN17 with a official blog by the company. For explanation the operational kilometer is indeed 1.3km but the actual distance is still 2.0km according to the company. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Christie The issues with the 2 sources or fixed. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK; will do another spotcheck (since the spotcheck has to come up clean before I can promote to GA).

Second spotcheck. Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • FN 5 cites "Although the Shibayama Railway is an independent operator, it functionally resembles an extension of the Keisei Electric Railway; the line is operated using equipment and crews leased from Keisei, and the company has no crews directly employed by the company because of this." Can you give me some background about this website? I looked at this page but it doesn't say whether this is a one-person operation or something with corporate backing. What makes it a reliable source? The answer provided here is "Direct trains to the Shibayama Railway Line do not have a crew change at Higashi-Narita Station. The Keisei driver continues to drive the train, and the Keisei conductor also remains on board." which doesn't fully support what the article says. We don't know if the crew and equipment are leased or if there is some other financial arrangement, and there is nothing in the source that says the Shibayama Railway is independent of Keisei. And the person supplying the answer, Iron Mask -- are they just a member of the public or an employee of this website? Their page is here; it appears they're just a user, so I don't think this source is usable.
  • FN 6 cites "However, IC cards are not accepted on this route, unlike most of Tokyo." I can't see support for this in the given source, though it's a longer piece and given how unreliable machine translation is I may well have missed it. This is also a cite to trafficnews.jp; at least this appears to be some sort of official user, though I still have questions about the reliability of the site.
  • FN 7 cites "Most Shibayama Railway trains provide local service to Keisei Narita Station past Higashi-Narita; a few local trains run through to Keisei Ueno Station, and express trains operate during rush hours through the Keisei Line and Toei Asakusa Line to terminate at Nishi-Magome Station, or Haneda Airport Station on the Keikyū Airport Line." This is sourced to a timetable, which I can't really follow. I can see the service to Narita. How do I see the other information?
  • FN 9 cites "Shibayama Railway was founded on May 5, 1981, and received an operating permit on June 24, 1988, for the 2.0 km line between Higashi-Narita Station and Seibijyō-Mae Station (later renamed to Shibayama-Chiyoda) to use dedicated small train sets between the current Shibayama-Chiyoda Station site and a temporary station adjacent to Higashi-Narita Station." I don't see where this says it was a temporary station next to Narita?

I'm concerned about the high failure rate of these spotchecks. I think I should probably fail this GA at this point, but to be fair I may well have misunderstood the sources or mistranslated them, so I'll wait for you to comment before figuring out what to do next. My recommendation would be to fail this, and then for you to take a couple of days to go through every citation (it's a short article so it wouldn't take long) and make sure everything is 100% cited correctly, to reliable sources. Then renominate. Let me know what you think. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like the original content that existed before the expansion weren't quite well thought of. For your reference, FN6 was unsourced before the expansion. Anyways, FN6 is supported by the reference, by the statement "ちなみに、芝山鉄道では「PASMO」や「Suica」などのIC乗車券は利用できず、自動券売機できっぷを購入する必要があります。" Machine translation was a bit unreliable there. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then I'm thinking I should fail this and let you go through it to be sure it's clean? As a rule, when you expand an article, it's worth checking all the existing content and citations before nominating at GA -- you're not the first to be caught out by inaccurate work from before you edited the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I went and checked all citations that I didn't, and I fixed a 404 link and several inaccuracies. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 00:12, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, great. I'll do another spotcheck, probably some time tomorrow, and if that passes I'll go on with the review. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though before I do that can you respond on the other spotcheck points above? E.g. the questions about the trafficnews.jp citations? and, unless you've changed those citations, the questions about FN 7 and 9? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For FN7 and FN9 - I have cut the sources where I failed to pull references from the internet. Jawiki may have them, but I'm unable to check offline sources. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 12:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I consider traffic.jp articles by the official team to be generally reliable, while for those that aren't, it depends if they are an expert or not. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 12:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Third spotcheck. Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • FN 4 cites "the line is operated using equipment and crews leased from Keisei, and the company has no crews directly employed by the company because of this". Verified.
  • FN 9 cites "The adult fare between Higashi-Narita and Shibayama-Chiyoda is 220 yen." Can you point me at the text that gives the fare price? I can't see it.
  • FN 18 cites "The company currently uses Keisei 3500 series leased from Keisei Electric Railways since 2013. In 2022, the train's wrapping was changed to use red and green stripes, resembling the former 3600 series used on the line." This says it's been nine years since the livery colours were used, but it doesn't say the 3500 series were leased starting in 2013. I see FN 19 could be used to cite this. I would suggest combining "Current" and "Former" into a single paragraph with no subsection heading under "Rolling stock"; the two sections say almost the same thing.
  • Not a spotcheck, but FYI the location map is going to need a source.

Sorry, ABG, but I'm going to have to fail this. I know you've done a lot of work correcting citations but after a third spotcheck comes up with problems, I really have no choice. Best of luck with the article if you nominate it again. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation to avoid getting QFed in the 2nd nomination:
  • The text stating FN9's faretable is located at the bottom part of the website.
Thanks for the advice regarding the Rolling Stock section, and thanks for reviewing one of the transport nominees that were getting neglected for some reason. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Shibayama Railway/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: AlphaBetaGamma (talk · contribs) 00:03, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: MetropolitanIC (talk · contribs) 06:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Will be taking this on for the coming week. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since this is the second GA nomination, I'll go through comments from your GA1 before I get on with the review. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary Analysis

[edit]

All mentions of the article will reference this version.

I'm looking through the article right now, and I'm still seeing a couple of problems that are unresolved from the previous GA nomination.

A couple of issues I found from persisting from the previous GA:

  • Footnote 8 - "During the run, the sign on the departure board always lists the destination as (Higashi Narita) Shibayama to avoid confusing the customers." I looked through the source, and still couldn't find where it says that in the article. I'm sure I've just missed it/there was an mistake or error in the translation, let me know if you can find the quotation.
  • The location map is still missing a source.

New issues from my spotcheck:

  • Footnote 10 - The article claims the railway was "founded on May 5, 1981," but source says otherwise, they give "May 1st" as the date.
    • The provided source also states that the railway was given a license to operate "between Shibatetsu Narita Airport Station (adjacent to Higashi-Narita Station) and Seibijo-mae Station."
    • The article claims that the license was to operate "between Higashi-Narita Station and Seibijyō-Mae Station (later renamed to Shibayama-Chiyoda)"
    • I suppose that there's some wiggle room since the stations are adjacent, but it still appears to me that "Shibatetsu Narita Airport Station" and "Higashi-Narita Airport Station" are separate, different stations; the source is miscited on the article.
  • Footnote 17 states "Seinō Railway operates the shortest freight-only railway line with an operational length of 1.3 km (0.8 mi)." While the source verifies its length, I can't find any description on the website stating that this railway is the "shortest freight-only railway."

It looks like a lot of the article has been cleaned up since the last GA nomination, there's only a couple of small issues here and there. I won't quick fail it just yet since most of these are just nitpicky issues, but I recommend looking over the article and its citations one more time before I go on with the review.

I will note, the map at Shibayama Railway#Location will need a citation/source, hopefully one exists on the JA wiki. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll take another look when you're ready. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 08:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright。Please hold the review because I'm bust for the rest of the day. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the map was probably directly pulled from jawiki by whoever had made the article first. I can clearly tell someone on jawiki probably made it for the article... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm awake now...
  • FN8
    • Fix in progress
  • FN10
    • Seibijo-mae Station was a placeholder name for Shibayama-Chiyoda Station.
    • I thought Higashi-Narita Station directly connects to the Line... If it was completely separate as you claim through service would be reality-bending. Do I need a citation to point that out? the FN8 website shows that the rider rode the train to Shibayama-Chiyoda from Keisei Higashi-Narita...
    • The difference between the date has been fixed.
ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 10
    • there weren’t any problems with Shibayama Chiyoda, I found a passage in the source that supported the name change.
    • I’m more concerned about the difference between Shibatetsu and Higashi stations. The Wikipedia page claims that the license was for operating from “Higashi-Narita” in the History section, but the footnote doesn’t support that, and claims the license was for operation from “Shibatetsu Narita Station.”
    • While you’re right that the FN8 shows that the line operates from Higashi-Narita *presently*, the FN 10 source cited in the History section shows that back in 1988, that wasn’t the case. That’s the issue here.
I’ll give you some time to take a look at it. I would recommend you do a quick sweep of the rest of the article as well. If my next random check comes up with more citation errors, I’m inclined to quickfail this GA2 before I look at the other criteria since the source problems from the GA1 persist. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 00:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll remove the FN8 statement from jawiki because I'm having trouble. It looks like the text came from the jawiki version, and the fucker never provided a source in jawiki. Could've sworn there was a source, but 3 months of time is enough for me to forget everything. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 01:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously though, the map is made by a jawiki editor. (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shibayama_Railway_Linemap.svg) it's from Wikipedia, and I will not find a source for that anywhere. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That’s unfortunate. Maybe there’s a similar map that depicts the same train station in one of the sources? I’ll take look around. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 02:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, no... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well the best source I could come up with is a diagram on Google Maps: [1]
If you're done looking over the article, I'd like to continue the review. I'll hold it for a couple more days. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 01:56, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MetropolitanIC, I've done my best to stamp out the citation issues. I don't know what to fucking do if this article still has the issue. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just coming back to say that I am in fact actively reviewing this (I have notes and comments typed up). I've just been a bit busy. Sorry about the delay, I'll have comments up soon. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:57, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citation Check #2

[edit]

Hey @AlphaBetaGamma, I've had this typed up for a bit and was hoping to post this along with the main review, but it's taking me a bit longer than expected. I've only been able to get back on Wikipedia recently after some IRL issues. I'll go ahead and post this first, the main review will be finished soon. Again, sorry about the delay.

Citations below are from this version: [2]

  • Randomly selected - 5, 6, 14, 18, 21
    • FN 5 - Good
    • FN 6 - Good
    • FN 14 - Good
    • FN 17 - Good
    • FN 18 - Looks like footnote 17 from earlier. Claiming it as the shortest freight-only railway isn't supported by the source.
    • FN 21 - Good

Footnote 18 is a bit iffy, but other than that I think we're good to go ahead. I'm ll start on the main review.

MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:54, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The FN after 18 supports the shortest freight railway claim. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shibayama_Railway&oldid=1250233015"