Talk:Software engineer/Archives/2014

Lack of Measurability

I would like to add to this article a description of the fact that software engineers do not yet use precise measurements for their work. My first attempt has been reversed only 2 hours after I entered it. Could anyone please let me know how this information should be entered, so it can stay in? Martin Rösch (talk) 20:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

To stay in, it needs to be verifiable by means of a reference to the reliable source in which the "fact" has been published. If it has not already been published, it is regarded as original research and would not be acceptable in Wikipedia. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:58, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I would like to say that Software Engineers do use measurements, and some of those have standards - they just don't use inches or millimetres. See the Wikipedia article on Software metrics. Jarod (talk) 13:35, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

the use of capital and small letters

I'm not a native speaker: I have seen at least three variations throughout this article to write software engineer. Which one is correct in the middle of a sentence, not the beginning: Software Engineer, software engineer or Software engineer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.228.246.172 (talk) 12:41, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I believe when referring to a title or name it is proper to capitalize all words, so "Software Engineer" is correct. Jarod (talk) 13:07, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I see your problem. When referring to a person who holds the title, it is correct to capitalize all words, as in my previous statement as it becomes a proper noun. When referring to a generic group of people who all work in the same field, all lower-case is correct as in the following example: "Not all of the software engineers are good at programming in Cobol." The only time the mixed case should show up is if you are using the generic reference to begin a sentence, such as: "Software engineers are smart." The opposite mixed case should never show up: "software Engineer" is never appropriate. Jarod (talk) 13:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 18:22, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

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Software engineer → Software Engineer – The article is referring to a proper noun, in which case both words should be captialized. This article should redirect to "Software Engineer" - not the other way around (current). Jarod (talk) 13:58, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose please see the definition of proper noun and common noun. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

On Proper Noun - "Rose lives on Floor 3 of the Main Building. [Main Building is the name of the building, Floor 3 names the third floor, and Rose names a person]" Software Engineer is the name of the profession, which is what this article (should be) is about. If we were referring to a generic person as a "software engineer" you would be correct as then it would be a proper name, which you could modify with "a", "any", etc. Jarod (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is not a proper noun (neither is "main building"), but a description of a trade. Capitalizing the second word would be incorrect. Miscellaneous user (talk) 16:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

The profession (which is different than a trade) would be called "software engineering", which would correctly not be capitalized. To use your trade analogy a plumber would engage in the trade of plumbing, or a nurse would work in the field of nursing. "Main Building" would be capitalized if it were indeed the name on the nameplate for the building. Granted that is a rather generic name and a poor example, that is what is written in the example on the Proper Noun page. Jarod (talk) 20:14, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

FYI proper noun isn't a proper noun either, and shouldn't be capitalized. Hot Stop talk-contribs 22:47, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Touche - that was my fault. To my credit though the page exists and correctly redirects you to "Proper noun" BUT leaves the URL as "...\wiki\Proper_Noun" Jarod (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. Job titles are not capitalized in formal writing. Hot Stop talk-contribs 22:31, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

It depends on how it's used. As a popular example: "In his speech, President Obama said..." This example does not apply to my request to move/rename the page. Jarod (talk) 14:12, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. However, that's not the same as a generic job title or rank. For example, you would say "Captain John Smith" or "Professor John Smith", but "John Smith is a captain" or "John Smith is a professor". Or indeed, "John Smith is a software engineer". There is actually far more precedent for capitalising military rank titles, but we decided some time ago not to do that on Wikipedia, so there's no reason why we should suddenly start treating software engineers any differently. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:43, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. I find no evidence that any name of a profession is always capitalized or generally treated as a proper noun. Until you have references like the EU's database of generic names of professions changing their ways, please retain the existing variety. Zzyzx11 (talk) 06:11, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

From Wikipedia's Manual of Style, under "Titles of people": "They are capitalized only in the following cases: ... When the correct formal title is treated as a proper name." - which I believe applies in this case. Jarod (talk) 14:12, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. No, it clearly isn't a proper name. It's an entirely generic name, just like any other job. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:43, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
• Conceded - Now, what's the procedure for closing this request? Jarod (talk) 16:20, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.