Talk:Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine)

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Page title?[edit]

The statue has been removed from the U.S. Capitol. Is "(U.S. Capitol)" still the best disambiguator? @Ham II: Putting this question on your radar since you've been working on National Statuary Hall Collection statues. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What about Statue of Robert E. Lee (Richmond, Virginia), which currently redirects to Robert E. Lee Monument (Richmond, Virginia)? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:38, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 February 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine) in accord with WP:OTHEROPTIONS. Closure requested <permalink>. See below consensus to change this title's qualifier, but no particular agreement about which qualifier would be best. The options were:

Statue of Robert E. Lee (Virginia Museum of History and Culture) – editor Tbhotch (nom)
Statue of Robert E. Lee (formerly U.S. Capitol) – editor Ham II
Statue of Robert E. Lee (Richmond, Virginia) – editor Another Believer
Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine) – editor Another Believer
Statue of Robert E. Lee (U.S. Capitol) – editor Necrothesp

From these options it appears that the best choice for now is Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine). WP:OTHEROPTIONS guides us: "the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen. And if anyone objects to the closer's choice, then instead of taking it to move review, they should simply make another move request at any time, which will hopefully lead the article to its final stable title." Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and stay healthy editing! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 23:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statue of Robert E. Lee (ex–U.S. Capitol) → Statue of Robert E. Lee (Virginia Museum of History and Culture) – The current title is vague. It indirectly implies that the statue is located at the "ex–U.S. Capitol" rather than implying it was formerly there. The new title goes straight to the point and the redirects will still be here for those unaware about its current whereabouts. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 21:15, 18 February 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 08:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: If "ex–U.S. Capitol" is ambiguous, "formerly U.S. Capitol" conveys the same information and is more concise (see WP:CRITERIA) than the proposed title. Ham II (talk) 10:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What about Statue of Robert E. Lee (Richmond, Virginia), which currently redirects to Robert E. Lee Monument (Richmond, Virginia)? Or, using artist's last name, so Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine)? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:14, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Robert E. Lee Monument (Richmond, Virginia) is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for Statue of Robert E. Lee (Richmond, Virginia), and seems to dominate Google results. I could get behind Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine), which follows the pattern of these article titles in Category:National Statuary Hall Collection: Statue of Sam Houston (Ney), Statue of Sakakawea (Crunelle) and Statue of George Washington (Houdon).

Recumbent Lee, another full-length sculpture of Lee by Valentine, seems generally to be called a statue in sources, but per WP:D2D there wouldn't be a need to disambiguate from it unless it had its own article. Still, a hatnote along the lines of This article is about the statue formerly in the U.S. Capitol. For the sculpture Recumbent Lee by the same artist, see University Chapel might be in order if we opt for Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine). Ham II (talk) 13:08, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm firming this up to Move to Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine). Statue of Robert E. Lee (U.S. Capitol) is gaining increased support, but I can't see that being a stable title – someone is bound to question it again, whereas it's indisputable that Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine) is accurate. The statue's primary claim to fame would be covered in the first sentence of the hatnote I've proposed, and the short description could be changed to Statue formerly in the U.S. Capitol as well. Ham II (talk) 10:05, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Move back to Statue of Robert E. Lee (U.S. Capitol). That's what it's known for! Nobody is going to associate it with a museum. We wouldn't move Vladimir Lenin monument, Kyiv to Vladimir Lenin monument (formerly in Kyiv) (there are plenty of other examples, also in America). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:51, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning towards move to Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine). Using "U.S. Capitol" to disambiguate is misleading since the sculpture is not installed there. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support the Statue of Robert E. Lee (Valentine) suggestion, with the hatnote proposed by Ham II to address the non-notable other sculpture. My concern with the destroyed statues comparison is that those spent their existence in the place of their disambiguation, while this one still exists, and remains notable, just elsewhere. I do recognize that it's probably still known for previously being in the capitol, but it would still strike me as weird to make that the disambiguator when other options are available -- like disambiguating an athlete by the team they iconically played for even once they moved to another.--Yaksar (let's chat) 16:41, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Move back to Statue of Robert E. Lee (U.S. Capitol). I agree that the statue is notable for being the statue of Lee that was at the U.S. Capitol, so that is the most recognizable disambiguator to use. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.