Talk:Stefan Milutin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Impossible

King Stephen V of Hungary had a daughter Elizabeth, but she was nun from age 4 until her death around 1320. She couldn't be the wife of Milutin. Bendeguz 15:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you actualy wish to go into discussion of "possible" and "impossible" in medieval? From modern point of view it's unconcievable that the Greek elders have commonly engaged into intimite relations with young boys, but it's true. It's pretty absurd to say "it's impossible" with the knowledge of the arranged marriages all over the medieval Europe.--PrimEviL (talk) 08:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Name

• "Stefan Milutin" (121)
  • "Stephan Milutin" (200)
  • "Стефан Милутин" (99)
  • "Стеван Милутин" (23)

• "Stefan Uroš II Milutin" (147)
  • "Стефан Урош II Милутин" (35)

• "King Milutin" (175)
  • "Краљ Милутин" (151)
  • "крал Милутин" (117)

• "Stephen Milutin" (60)

• "Milutin Nemanjić" (12)
  • "Милутин Немањић" (29)

Gbook hits.--Zoupan 00:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 2 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. A history swap was also required to preserve the history of the target destination. Jenks24 (talk) 15:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

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Stefan Uroš II Milutin of Serbia → Stefan Milutin – It was recently decided to move Stephen Uroš IV Dušan of Serbia to Stefan Dušan (see: Talk:Stephen_Uroš_IV_Dušan_of_Serbia#Requested_move_26_July_2015). Stefan Uroš III Dečanski of Serbia was also recently moved to Stefan Dečanski (see: Talk:Stefan_Dečanski#Requested_move_30_March_2015). We should keep consistency and move this to Stefan Milutin. It is also his most common name (see previous section on this page). Vanjagenije (talk) 12:00, 2 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Natg 19 (talk) 06:47, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support. Common name.--Zoupan 02:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wife, Jelena=Helana?

Per, Voices in the Shadows: Women and Verbal Art in Serbia and Bosnia, page 65; Stefan Milutin and Jelana(daughter of sebastocrator John Angelos, governor of Thessaly) had a son Stefan Uros.

Are there any reliable source(s) stating Jelena was the daughter of a Serbian noble? --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:49, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 22:58, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Ana Terter

@Terraflorin: Regarding this and this, can you provide some WP:reliable source that says Ana Terter was Milutin's first wife? Vanjagenije (talk) 18:28, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@Vanjagenije: My mistake, is the fourth wife. But there are 4 different versions about his wives - i) Malamut, 2000 , p. 492. ii) Malamut, 2000 , p. 491. iii) Malamut, 2000 , p. 493. iv) Pobun Stefan (Dechanskog). See also ru:Стефан_Урош_II_Милутин#Семья Terraflorin (talk) 04:47, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Expand

• THE TURKS IN EUROPE (1305-13) AND THE SERBS IN ASIA MINOR (1313)

Child Abuse

This article fails to mention that Simonis Palaiologina (later known as Simonida Nemanjić) was only five years old at the time of the alliance between her father and Milutin (who was forty). The fourteenth-century historian Nicephorus Gregoras relates that Milutin, "did not abide by the legal requirements for the wife to reach legal age and raped her at the age of 8, causing injuries of the womb, which prevented her from bearing children, and mental suffering which obliged her to return in tears to her homeland to be a nun." Milutin wasn't a hero, he was a child molester, and was recognized as such by the standards of his own time; his article should reflect this, or at the very least include more information about his crimes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.155.213.134 (talk) 02:23, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Do not judge people from the Middle Ages based on our 2023 views and knowledge. What you are stating is most probably not true and it is based on a claim found in a primary source. Best. — Sadko (words are wind) 20:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Would you consider Gregoras' Chronicle a primary source? In section ten of page 243 in Schopen's 1829 edition of the work, it says "τῇ μὲν γὰρ ϑυγατρὶ ὀχταετεῖ πλέον ἢ τετταρακοντούτης ο Κράλης μιγεὶς βλαβῆναι τὴν ταύτης πέπραχε μήτραν, ὡς μηδὲ γονὴν ἐξ ἐχείγης ἔτι δύνασϑαι γίγνεσϑαι." Which, translated, reads, "The forty-year-old king raped the eight-year-old daughter and damaged her uterus so that she became unable to have children".

[1]https://archive.org/details/byzantinahistor00bekkgoog/page/243/mode/2up?view=theater

And no, molesting eight-year-olds was not seen as at all acceptable behaviour in Milutin's time and place, that is part of why upsetting facts like this one were recorded.

[2] 72.19.43.63 (talk) 03:12, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

References