Talk:The Birthday Massacre

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Citations[edit]

This article needs additional citations for verification.

I just added about 50 new citations over the past couple days which are all good sources for fans of this band and can be checked and verified. Wikipedia is extremely strict on sources that don't come from mainstream media (such as NY times, Forbes, Etc.) For example they wont allow Rue-Morgue Magazine as a reliable source. This is a good idea for articles such as H2O or Moon but for band articles it ends up making for poorly sourced, poorly documented stub articles because wiki editors just delete them when they don't recognize them (even though they are sometimes relevant). Bands don't have the option to 'opt out' of Wikipedia search results but are at the mercy of the moderators who control their pages. Therefore please participate with this page to keep it relevant and updated with sources that are known. Your participation keeps this article relevant for newcomers. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 23:38, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
I also added [citation needed] tags in places that need them. Please allow some time for other readers to add Citations rather then just deleting the sentence. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 18:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
BTW, there are some much better citations out there in the news archives, such as articles by washingtonpost or villagevoice. Jason (talk) 10:48, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

External Links[edit]

For some reason Moderators will only allow for one link - thebirthdaymassacre.com TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 23:27, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Officially Supported Links Added[edit]

I've added links officially supported on http://www.thebirthdaymassacre.com. I think this will help make the page more of a resource for fans looking to find other sites that the band supports (such as their forum, TBMChicago.com, and their livejournal community). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.34.236 (talkcontribs) 18:02, 28 April 2006

Is the Frappr map really necessary though? Blackserenity 10:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Frappr map deleted Blackserenity 11:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
More Officially Supported Links Added! (youtube, VF, Bebo)

...not on the main tbm page yet. But they will be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.99.14.48 (talkcontribs) 17:11, 1 April 2007

I added a link to our video interview of the band. If this is too self-promoting on our part it can be removed. -maxMIN/Noisescape TV —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.9.8 (talk) 23:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

It appears that Wikipedia won't allow me to add the official Facebook profile, does anybody know why this is? TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 06:48, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Official page is Facebook.com/thebirthdaymassacre TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 20:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Video Citations[edit]

Im having some buffer issues on my computer so if anybody else can be kind enough to check the time signitures on the video citations to make sure that they line up properly. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 20:53, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Moderators have told me its bad to cite so many video sources. Trying to contribute other reliable sources.TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 20:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Redirected member articles[edit]

I've redirected all but Rhim (who seems to have done some other things) here. --Eyrian 14:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


O-En and O.E. have various other projects as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.7.71 (talk) 00:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Added other projects by adding "Associated acts" section. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 20:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Clarification[edit]

To be Clear: O.E. and O-en are not the same person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.54.108.113 (talkcontribs) 18:00, 7 June 2007

Now clarified in the article under the "Violet" section. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Genre Sources[edit]

Please contribute more sources to help come to a consensus on how to describe the genre of this band,

Last FM http://www.last.fm/music/The+Birthday+Massacre Genres: industrial, gothic, synth-rock, electronic, female vocalists

Billboard http://www.billboard.com/artist/the-birthday-massacre/500719 Genres: New wave ~ Jason Ankeny, All Music Guide

Fearnet.com http://www.fearnet.com/news/reviews/b23417_birthday_massacre_imaginary_monsters_ep.html Genres: gothic power-pop — Preceding unsigned comment added by TBMforeverNowhere (talkcontribs) 08:18, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

"Industrial"[edit]

I agree with the previous editing IP that TBM is not an industrial band in any way. I've never seen any evidence that they are industrial. I'll open discussion here before editing the page; no one needs an acrimonious edit war.--Halloween jack (talk) 22:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, apparently, someone does.--Halloween jack (talk) 00:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I hate to discuss about every stupid pop band. No human with a brain calls this fucking pop music "Industrial". The same with Darkwave. TBM has nothing to do with Industrial or Darkwave. TBM sounds like Synth Rock/Alternative Rock with an 80s New Wave influence and an influence of Electronica. Republica meets Orgy, Berlin meets Curve or Garbage.
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9gXqVDkFQ
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=fgVEtaUx070
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijh2Fqd1ZPY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.122.7.210 (talk) 00:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree, TBM is a synthpop/alt rock band who happen to be popular in the North American goth subcuture because of their style and lyrical themes. But you can't just arbitrarily edit an article based on "what they sound like to you" without any sources to back it up. Article content isn't decided by who gets the angriest and throws the biggest temper tantrum. --Halloween jack (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Goths listen to Gothic rock, not to baby pop. If you want you can find sources for every shit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.122.7.210 (talk) 01:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, that's right, I forgot. Sources don't matter, because you are the infallible God of Goth, everything you say is true, and you don't have to come up with any reasoning to back your arguments because Goth is defined by everything you say it is, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and an idiot. This is the same kind of boneheaded behavior you've exhibited throughout your entire edit history. Get it through your head: "Because I say so" carries no weight on Wikipedia. Insulting people and calling them "kiddies" or "babies" carries no weight and means nothing. I can do the exact same thing to you, and with far more justification. --Halloween jack (talk) 01:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Revert this crap. There is no Industrial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.122.7.235 (talk) 23:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Industrial music doesn't exist?--Halloween jack (talk) 00:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Industrial music most definately exists; however, true industrial is very rare these days. By true industrial I refer to music composed without any instrumentation and based simply off the sounds of the world that surrounds us - see early works by Sacha, pre-KMFDM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.8.225.99 (talk) 20:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

What I find funny, is that ALL their albums / eps are classed as "industrial" - progressivly music changes - look at early black metal, and modern black metal - completly differnet (i.e Gorogoroth and er...venom and sabbath). They are the modern indsutrial rock band - just like Jakalope. - Wykked Vampyr

So, does anyone have a cite for the industrial label? I'm guessing not, but if one exists, fair enough. If nothing can be found I'm taking it out of the genre listing at some point. 77.103.212.27 (talk) 14:43, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Still waiting on this - anyone?77.103.212.27 (talk) 00:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Last prod with a stick - I'll remove the genre on the 11th of Oct (or so) if no-one has found anything...138.199.70.196 (talk) 19:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Goth rock, AllMusic source[edit]

I don't think it's appropriate to list TBM as a goth rock band. They're very much a part of the gothic subculture but their musical style doesn't bear the traits of gothic rock. I don't think that sites like AllMusic are reliable or authoritative in such instances; they generally assign genre labels based on very vague impressions or, well, I don't know exactly what method they use, but it isn't like they actually have a knowledgeable staffer sit and listen to the music in detail and then write them up. I think "synth rock" pretty much sums up their musical style and no other descriptors are really necessary. --Halloween jack (talk) 21:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I know very little about the band in question - I only actually stumbled across this edit war by accident. I don't actually recall ever hearing any of their stuff. The AllMusic thing was just something I found in an attempt to come to a compromise - use it, don't use it, your collective decision to make. Still, a reliable source stating the Birthday Massacre's genre in black and white would help to settle this little debate - even better still if it came from the band's own comments about what they consider themselves to be. Any interviews with the band or reviews from respected rock publications that can be cited? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
All I know is that they do list themselves as (IIRC) "goth/alternative/industrial" on their MySpace. But again, that's just a tag, and most likely used more to market themselves to their target audience (the NA goth/industrial subcultures) than to exactly describe their musical style and instrumental setup. --Halloween jack (talk) 22:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, seeing how this page is now semi-protected, I just have to ask...
What exactly is "alternative rop"?
(also, I don't think 87.122 speaks english as a primary language. He's probably some piece ov Euro-trash that listens to NIN or Bullet for my valentine.No body in their right mind would call TBM "baby pop".) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.142.218 (talk) 22:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Oops - me bad. Typo fixed. Could've been worse - could've typed 'rop/pock'... :) --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Great, now that's fixed, I want you to change it back to Synth Rock, Industrial. Sorry, but I refuse to believe these guys are "goth rock" and they are definatly not "alternative pop". As you said yourself, you've never heard them before. I suggest you go on youtube.com and search for "The Birthday Massacre - Blue" and ask me if you think they sound like pop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.142.218 (talk) 02:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Frankly, I don't think that they're an industrial band either. Just a synth rock band. I agree with Breathtaker's assessment that they are a synth rock band, just not with the arbitrary and abusive editing (and the fact that he keeps trying to edit after being banned for those things). He or she is German, btw, not "Eurotrash." --Halloween jack (talk) 05:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, the threshold for inclusion in WP is verifiability, not truth. The reason we have an edit war (and a protected page) at the moment is because editors are trying to introduce their personal opinions Re: genre into the article - I'm not intending to take sides here. 'Industial', 'synth rock', 'darkwave', 'goth rock', whatever - find a reliable source that agrees with you (as I mentioned above), cite it and it suddenly becomes a lot more difficult for other editors to argue the toss.
By the way - if the aforementioned banned editor comes back when the page protection expires, report him/her at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets with your evidence (not much point flagging it up now, as he/she appears to be using dynamic IPs). --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 10:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Fine, just change it back to Synth rock before my head explodes (alternative goth pop? please). But for all intensive purposes Synth rock and industrial rock are synonymous. I don't think you'd get your ass kicked if you went to an Angelspit concert wereing a TBM t-shirt... 69.250.142.218 (talk) 17:53, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Goth subculture[edit]

I removed the statement that is was "generally associated with the goth subculture." In what sense of the word "generally" is it? The source that was listed was written by a 52 year old reporter with no credibility in terms of music. He is more reporting his experience with his daughter then an actual evaluation of the music and voices that he clearly does not know much about the music he is talking about; the daughter is the focus and he is conveying what it feels like to be in his position and look at this music from his point of view as an older man looking at youth. Of course he is going to think something is "punk" (like blink 182 lol) or "goth" because he has no idea.

To not include Gothic Rock in the description of this band is grossly misleading. Ever since their inception they have had close ties with Toronto-Goth.com, VampireFreaks.com, Gothic Beauty, Zillo, Rouge Morgue Magazine among many other Gothic publications and live festivals. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 02:02, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Rock[edit]

Whoever was the mastermind behind the deletion of the synth rock page needs to think about what we're going to classify TBM as. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.213.8.103 (talk) 10:09, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The article on SythRock (redirected to SythPop) is there, so the article isn't gone. User WesleyDodds changed the listing over the weekend to just Rock. I'm no musical expert, but TBM sure doesn't sound like a generic Rock band, but then again I'm not so sure they fit being call Pop band (SythPop) either. --Brownings (talk) 11:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Death Metal[edit]

124.104.125.245 Thought it would be a great idea to list The Birthday Massacre as Brutal Death Metal / Hardcore Punk. It could easily be seen that The Birthday Massacre is not Brutal Death Metal and shouldn't be compared to a band like Cannibal Corpse. I undid the change back to the Alternative rock / Synth rock / Industrial music / Industrial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Triesault (talkcontribs) 18:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually it was me, 89.123 something and yeah, I thought it was a great idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.123.197.192 (talk) 15:11, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

They are definitely not death metal or hardcore punk, but industrial metal or gothic metal might be worth mentioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:A:1202:2E7:24FC:692D:7302:928 (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Gothic Darkwave[edit]

I agree they're not goth rock or darkwave, but i hate people who says that pop isn't goth, listen this mortal coil or cocteau twins, they're goth. Depeche mode.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.51.33.232 (talk) 04:22, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

i agree. they are a goth band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.184.113 (talk) 01:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
No. They're not. Stop reverting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.236.40 (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
yes they are. you stop reverting and leave it alone!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.184.113 (talk) 03:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

i had a source on the fact they are a gothic rock group. some jerk keeps reverting after i posted it. i want this to stop please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.184.113 (talk) 04:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, kid. They're not Gothic Rock. Doesn't all the resistance you're meeting on this tell you something? 76.181.46.62 (talk) 05:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
No, they are not gothic rock, but there's sources for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.51.58.198 (talk) 21:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
What is "gothic rock" to you? Is it goths in a band? Marilyn Manson? Black Metal? Darkwave? What is it?

Please, stop adding Gothic Rock and Industrial. That's so fucking stupid. There is absolutely no relationship to these genres.


It's more of a cross between goth, pop, rock and techno. I wouldn't say they're %100 of any genre, but I'll ask the guys on the fan-forum to be sure. And srsly, stop edit-warring and bitching. It's kind of stupid. ~Marionetta

Ref Improve[edit]

Well, there are multiple references to the same information in many places. Avoiding this alone will cut down the numbers substantially. --Freknsay (talk) 09:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Feel free to combine multiple references. I'm just trying to establish a base article first, then will purge later. Too much work to do this all at once by myself so im just trying to gather sources and citations first. TBMforeverNowhere (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Metal[edit]

Shouldn't the metal influence in some of their songs like "Blue" or "In the Dark" be mentioned somewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:A:1202:2E7:24FC:692D:7302:928 (talk) 18:43, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

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