Talk:The Cut (Michigan)

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Requested move 11 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus is against the move as proposed. If someone wants to start a new RM for one of the alternatives suggested, feel free to do so. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Vaulter 17:35, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cut River (Roscommon County, Michigan) → The Cut – While some seemingly "official" sources, including maps and road signs posted by the local road commission, refer to this hydrologic feature as "Cut River," the official name as listed in the U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System is "The Cut." The USGS' GNIS is the repository for all officially-recognized names for any named natural feature in the United States and there is a specific process by which features are named or renamed by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names (BGN). While a geographic feature may be referred to by any number of other names for any number of reasons, each feature has only one officially-recognized name—the one listed in the USGS GNIS. An example would be Denali. While many still may refer to it as Mount McKinley, it is properly listed in Wikipedia as "Denali." Similarly, "The Cut" should be listed with its proper name and then noted that it is labeled on some maps and referred to by some as "Cut River" as well. (Another side benefit to using its official name would be to limit confusion with the much more widely known Cut River in Mackinac County.)

Some supporting documentation:

USGS GNIS Listing for "The Cut" – note under the "Variant Names" heading, there are "None" for this feature, meaning "Cut River" is not an official variant name for "The Cut."
USGS GNIS Search for anything with the word "Cut" in the name in Roscommon County, Michigan – no other features in Roscommon County have the word "Cut" in the name, meaning "The Cut" is not a distinct feature from "Cut River," for example.
"The Cut" on a c.1930 Hixon Map of Roscommon County
"The Cut" on a 1955 Michigan DNR Map of Roscommon County
"The Cut" on the 1963 USGS "Lyon Manor" 1:24,000 quad
"The Cut" on the 1963 USGS "Lyon Manor" 1:24,000 quad
"The Cut" on the 1963 USGS "Prudenville" 1:24,000 quad
"The Cut" on the 1984 USGS "Houghton Lake" 1:100,000 quad
"The Cut" on the "South Higgins Lake State Park" map, Michigan DNR, 2017
"The Cut" on the Michigan State Forest Boundaries & Campgrounds mapping app, Michigan DNR, 2022
I also have official Michigan State Highway Department maps of Roscommon County from 1938, 1939, 1940, 1945, 1948, 1957 and 1969 in my possession with the feature in question labeled solely as "The Cut" on every one of the maps.

If desired, I could come up with many more sources labelling this feature as "The Cut" as well as sources dating back earlier than the 1930 map included above. However, in my professional opinion (as a cartographer), the fact that the official Federal database of geographic names lists it solely as "The Cut"—and that entry is even currently linked in the Wikipedia article at present!—should be more than enough reason to move this article to "The Cut" with a redirect left at "Cut River (Roscommon County, Michigan)." CBessert (talk) 08:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The Cut is currently a disambiguation page with about 20 items, including Cut River (Roscommon County, Michigan). So if move its destination should probably be The Cut (Roscommon County, Michigan)? (Keeping full disambiguation to avoid confusion with Cut River (Mackinac County, Michigan) but using "(United States)" or "(Michigan)" also seems fine.) Skynxnex (talk) 14:28, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, not the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 16:38, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed. Certainly not the primary topic. Neutral on moving to The Cut (Roscommon County, Michigan). -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed, as it's not the primary topic, but I would support a move to The Cut (Roscommon County, Michigan) or a similar title. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:50, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
CBessert, thoughts? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose I see no reason to merge the disambiguation pge currently at The Cut into a massive hatnote onto this article. Nor do I see why this article should be primary -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 07:22, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose proposed target but I agree it should be moved. I think The Cut (Michigan) is adequate, but "The Cut (Roscommon County, Michigan)" is fine with me. Thanks CBessert for the documentation. As a separate matter, the federal definition of the stream's course should also be reflected in the article text: Per the GNIS coordinates, it is a tributary of Backus Creek, and does not flow all the way to Houghton Lake. --TimK MSI (talk) 14:27, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment – there's clearly consensus that this river isn't the primary topic for The Cut, but a bit more discussion about The Cut (Roscommon County, Michigan) vs. The Cut (Michigan) vs. the status quo would be useful. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed, some get more views and are just "The Cut" such as The Cut (2014 drama film) with 504 views, The Cut, Berkshire with 423 and The Cut, London with 317[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:07, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose but agree with TimK's suggestion above to move to The Cut (Michigan). ╠╣uw [talk] 09:50, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It ain't broke so don't fix it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:23, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 27 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to The Cut (Michigan) per nom. No such user (talk) 13:27, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cut River (Roscommon County, Michigan) → The Cut (Michigan) – USGS GNIS and other sources CBessert cited in #Requested move 11 July 2022 Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 08:32, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per my comment in the earlier discussion and other comments, this is a fine destination. Skynxnex (talk) 21:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per my comment in the earlier discussion. Thanks--TimK MSI (talk) 21:38, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.