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Talk:Theodore Parker

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This article currently has nine external links; only the two from the University of Nebraska represent quality textual resources and they are quite limited extracts. A Gutenberg Project link appears, but these works are unpaginated and so cannot be cited. For many decades The Slave Power [[1]] represented the basic edition of Parker writings. For this reason, it will be useful to revert the primary source deletion on 21 June 2007 by User:Requestion.--Jlockard 06:21, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

→ See also: Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#EServer.org
A link to a page with a dozen or more links and a single paragraph authored by Jlockard would not improve the well referenced Parker article. — Athaenara ✉ 00:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree, and find the link to The Slave Power a useful and encyclopedic reference which is otherwise unavailable on the Web. Any reader who is interested in learning more about Parker will want to read some of his work, and this is as good a selection as any, and better than any other I can find on the Web. I can find some scattered early editions of Parker's work on Google Books, but The Slave Power is apparently not available there or anywhere else besides antislavery.eserver.org. It seems a bit beside the point to focus on the fact that the page directly linked contains only a single paragraph of text, when the point of the link is to give access the book, which is available in three different formats there. I understand why Jlockard's edits have set off some people's spam radar, but let's not be blinkered about what makes a better encyclopedia article here. -- Rbellin|Talk 00:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The use of unpaginated and unreferenced text resources, too common in Wikipedia article links, severely limits their usefulness. This means that they cannot be cited by users. Seven of the nine links are not citable primary text resources and/or do not meet a standard of verifibility. That is not well-referenced. Due care should be taken in selection of links providing text resources. The external link proposed has one introductory paragraph (by Jlockard) and three (XHTML, PDF, Word) versions of Parker's Slave Power for reader convenience.--Jlockard 00:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am formatting the existing references for the article and looking into this link matter further. If, as now seems likely, the link you offer is the only existing link to the text of The Slave Power in xhtml, pdf and word on a single page, I will format and add it also. — Athaenara ✉ 02:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Athaenara. It is appreciated.--Jlockard 03:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are welcome. — Athaenara ✉ 05:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Grodzins bio

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Has anyone read Dean Grodzin's 2002 bio? I added it to Further Reading. It's won several prizes and since its appearance has been considered the standard work on early Parker.

Perhaps there are some watchers out there who'd like to improve this already solid page by referencing this work? I'll revisit and add what I'm able to, as I'm able.Ath271 (talk) 06:43, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

please use Grodzin--here are some cites that use the book & maybe that can help from Google Scholar Rjensen (talk) 06:53, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Super thanks Rjensen. I've got notes on his book too and will cull that resource and yours at next opportunity.Ath271 (talk) 18:33, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even given the accolades for the book, why is Grodzins the only source in Further Reading whose listing reads like a free advertisement (complete with purchase link and blurb)? I'm not experienced enough to say if there's a policy violation in that, but it seems questionable to me Gevzgno (talk) 14:56, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

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Currently our article is structured so:

Biography

  • Early Life
  • Career
  • Death

Social Criticism and Beliefs

Legacy and Honors

This is a good starting point, but it separates Parker’s career from his beliefs; puts his death before his developing theology/practice; has no clear place for marriage and family; and conflates his legacy with honors (surely there is some criticism regarding his legacy?).

We also have some sequencing and citation issues, e.g. pulpits were closed to him in Boston after not before his 1841 sermon (which is titled “Transient and Permanent” not “Permanent and Transient” as we now have it); he studied with Convers Francis before divinity school not during; and so on.


I’ve worked in depth with Grodzins and rjensen’s related RS to address these issues and based on this, propose restructuring the article as follows:

Early Life

College and Divinity School, 1830-1836 [not “Education,” since we cover early education in the first section]

Early Family and Career, 1836-1843

  • Marriage
  • First Pastorate
  • Transcendentalism
  • Break with Orthodoxy

Mature Family and Career, 1843-1859

  • First Travel to Europe
  • Independent Boston Pastorate
  • Reform Movements and Social Theology

Death

Legacy

  • Honors
  • Criticisms

Not a radical shift, but hopefully adds some detail and depth. But I realize it might be hard to discuss periodization and other details until there’s more new material to work with. That's all waiting in the wings. So unless someone sees a better way of structuring this at the moment, I’ll post it in a day or two. Ath271 (talk) 03:50, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent changes and ideas for improvement

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So sorry, I realized just at the end of making changes that I hadn't tagged edits with a description in the revision history. I kept much from the original article but revised/expanded/improved sourcing. All open to discussion re: content and sourcing, of course.

Ideas for improvement:

  • Add more variety of sources. Henry Steel Commager's bio is not best and recent, and much in it has been revised, re-examined, and superseded. However some points can be gathered from it, and this would round out sourcing and give a sense of historiography.
  • What about Georgie, the adopted son/nephew of Theodore and Lydia? He should be added.
  • Add more on Transcendentalism, without overlapping with the Transcendental entry itself. Notably Parker’s engagement with Brook Farm, Fruitlands, etc.
  • More on his relationships with other notable reformers and theologians, esp. liberal theologians (Emerson, Fuller, Stanton, Douglass, Horace Bushnell, HW Beecher, etc) and comparisons among them
  • The Legacy section could be better; for NPOV, we should separate Honors, References, and Criticisms (criticisms could include questions re: anti-semitism, his questionably gendered disparaging comments re: Margaret Fuller, etc)
  • Go through his major writings (History of the Jews, Transient and Permanent, De Witte, etc) and provide a synopsis - in general describe his beliefs in more depth and detail as they developed over time Ath271 (talk) 23:02, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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