Talk:Timeline of LGBT history

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1924 & 1974... Panama?[edit]

Just as recently as 2008 was homosexuality made legal in the Republic of Panama.. why does this article say that in 1924 and 1972, homosexuality was legalized and transexuals who had sex reasignment surgery may have their legal ID to state their new gender? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.224.81.82 (talk) 20:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

1941 - Transsexuality?[edit]

"1941 - Transsexuality was first used in reference to homosexuality and bisexuality."

I have a hard time believing that. Does anyone have any sources? That almost seems to contradict the 1958 entry. --65.190.100.188 06:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Oscar Wilde.jpg[edit]

The image File:Oscar Wilde.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Rationale added to image:Oscar_Wilde.jpg#Licensing/Historic importance rationale for use on this article.—Teahot (talk) 11:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

12,000 BCE[edit]

Currently the text refers to Explaining the early human mind, 1996 in order to interpret phallic batons as a double dildo that might have been used by two women. The source actually states "including one double baton from the Gorge d'Enfer with two explicitly rendered penises set at an angle to one another (just like a modern `double' dildo)" this does not imply that two women would have used this dildo at the same time. On this basis I shall remove the text as it cannot be justified as evidence of LGBT history and is over interpreting the source material and is original research.—Ashleyvh (talk) 10:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

5,000 BCE / aaronsgayinfo.com[edit]

I have removed the reference to arronsgayinfo.com - Timeline of more History as this counts as a tertiary source and does not constitute a reliable source. It may still be an interesting general external link.—Ashleyvh (talk) 11:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Note that arronsgayinfo.com is listed in External Links.—Teahot (talk) 07:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Austria and Hungary[edit]

Parliaments in Austria and Hungary not approved registered partnership bills yet Ron 1987 (talk) 10:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

2005 Hong Kong Gay Sex Law Dead / 365gay.com[edit]

The link to this story via webarchive.org to 365gay.com has been put back by User:EqualRights after being identified by me as a deadlink (diff). Unfortunately the link still appears to not work, directing me to the live version of the top level page for 365gay.com. Could someone please check this out and either repair the link, delete or replace with a better source?—Teahot (talk) 11:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Are LGBT people pederasts?[edit]

I have removed the following extended section on pederasty as I do not believe it is directly part of Timeline of LGBT history and a likely distraction into other issues for this article. A mention of pederasty and associated link is still in that section for a reader to follow through. Please do not automatically replace this text without discussion first.

Pederasty spread through ancient Greece, influencing sports, literature, politics, philosophy, art and warfare, and causing, according to some,

a flowering of culture; it was associated with gymnasia and athletic nudity.[1][2] However, in his Laws, Plato spoke up against the decadence into which traditional Athenian pederasty sank, blamed pederasty for promoting civil strife and driving many to their wits' end, and recommended the prohibition of sexual intercourse with boys, laying out a path whereby this may be accomplished.[3]

Pedarasty comes from the Greek word paiderastia which is a combination of pais (meaning boy), the verb eran (meaning to love), and eros (meaning desire). It was attributed to Zeus when he kidnapped young Ganymede. Pedarasty is not to be confused with pedophilia; only boys that had reached an appropriate age (that is, come into puberty) were considered for this relationship. Greek law prohibited prostitution, sex with underage boys, and sex with slaves. [4]

Ash (talk) 18:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I note that this has been reverted without discussion. Would anyone care to explain why the history of Pederasty is the same as the history of LGBT, as I do not consider Pederasts either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender?—Ash (talk) 20:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the question should be the other way around: are pederasts LGBT people? Use a Venn diagram and figure it out. Just because two things are not exactly the same does not mean they do not overlap significantly.Ryoung122 21:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
You are free to create an article called Timeline of pederast history but it is off-topic for LGBT history. Using the term "pederast" without qualification at the beginning of this article carries the modern meaning of the term and consequently conflates pederasts with LGBT people. The text here also uses terms such as "underage boys" without explanation in the article which will be misunderstood by the layman reader. LGBT does not encompass pederasty and your argument about overlap is irrelevant as you could use the same argument to get the subject of pederasty on articles such as Priesthood, Black people or Police.—Ash (talk) 21:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I shall remove this off-topic material again. Please do not replace without reasonable discussion here.—Ash (talk) 11:36, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Ash: I agree with you completely. Let me know if this turns into a problem here. I get tired of having the LGBT sections of this encyclopedia being constant targets for 'clever' people. And I very much doubt that WP wants that kind of publicity. Twang (talk) 10:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS IS SERIOUSLY MISGUIDED: There is mention of Antonius and Emperor Hadrian (Hadrian met Antonius when he was younger than 19!!!), Alexander the Great (he is known for liking boys), and Leonardo Da Vinci who is known to have lived with a boy from when the boy was aged ten. Either expunge all mention of such geniuses/heros or admit that they had sex with boys! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.140.34 (talk) 19:00, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Excessive requests for citations? Hope not[edit]

There needs to be some common sense in heavily marking up sections on timeline pages with "NO REFERENCES! templates. Any line that has a link in it to an associated article should not be marked 'cite needed' unless the associated article doesn't support that line. Correspondingly, whole sections should not be marked "This section does NOT CITE ANY references or sources" unless it does not cite ANY.

WP has a VERY prominent set of timelines ... the days of the year ... e.g. August 11 or July 3. I've seen hundreds of these pages, and there are FEW if ANY requests for citations there.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be *delighted* to see all these entries *heavily* cited. It's not going to happen overnight. Twang (talk) 10:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Kosovo![edit]

1970 – Kosovo decriminalized homosexuality. I don't understand, did Kosovo even exist at that time? Did the writer of this sentence, mean Serbia? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 03:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Anastasius I[edit]

"In spite of the laws against gay sex, the Christian emperors continued to collect taxes on male prostitutes until the reign of Anastasius I, who finally abolishes the tax in favor of sampling of the best men."

What is meant by "sampling of the best men"?? Thanks. 99.9.112.31 (talk) 23:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)roger

Equality rights legislation or LGBT history?[edit]

The latter part of the LGBT history has become a list of LGBT rights obtained in various parts of the world, particularly the 90s' and 21 century sections, when compared to the earlier sections which are much more diverse. It looks like the only LGBT historical events are those relating to rights and equality (21st century Equality Timeline not an LGBT History timeline).

Much of the 21st century section could be extracted to an LGBT Rights Timeline leaving space for other historical milestones which should be recorded here. A summary of LGBT equality and rights could remain on this page. Alternatively there should be more contribution in areas other than rights and equality. The 21st century section has bullet points "other" for everything not connected to equality and rights, which may convey to the reader that events listed there as less significant. i.e this section does not appear impartial.

80's. 90's and 00's. The history of AIDS and its devastating impact on the LGBT communities around the world is largely ignored. Contributors contributing in this decade are focused on the current LGBT focus (of equal rights) whereas if wikipedia had been around in the eighties and nineties, the focus would have been on AIDS. Without becoming an AIDS timeline, I have added several significant events related to AIDS during 80's. 90's and 00's.

I suggest that the LGBT history page should be more balanced. It should not be either an AIDS timeline nor an Equal Right timeline (though there could be pages for those subjects), but reflect a wider range of historically important events.

Some I was thinking of adding:-

  • Queer TV and cinema
    • first male to male kiss on television
    • first female to female kiss on television
    • first gay themed Oscar winning Hollywood movie (Brokeback Mountain)
  • Significant Trans events
  • Prime time TV historical moments such as Ellen DeGeneres revealing that she was a lesbian
  • Violence against the LGBT community (some of which is timelined in Violence against LGBT people)
  • Significant LGBT politicians (there are only 4 references to out politicians 1 Dutch, 2 US, 1 UK)
  • Significant apologies to the LGBT community (UK: Alan turing, Section 28, Archbishop of Canterbury))
  • Latter day sports personalities flying the flag for the LGBT community (e.g. Gareth Thomas)
  • Other events which reflect the way in which the LGBT perceives itself and
  • Other events which show how the LGBT community is perceived by the wider community

Thoughts? PjThompso 09:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjthompso (talkcontribs)

The bulletpoint nature of the 21st century + 2000 is definately my 'fault'. a few edits back it was just an ad hoc mess, every new fact/event someone thought of was stuck on with a sentence to the end of the appropriate year. I wanted to make it easier to read and to have some form of order. That said, 80-90% of the facts/events there were there already and I just verified and categorised them, i.e. I haven't made significant content contributions. Given that the vast majority of what was there was about LGBT rights I created categories appropriately. The Other category was anything that, as you say, didn't fit into a LGBT rights issues category neatly, mainly because there wasn't enough material to make a category out of the individual events left over (seperate one member categories seemed a little silly). The only exception to this rule was that Pride marches were mentioned a lot so I created a category for them too.
If you can think of other categories with plenty of examples e.g. the ones you suggest above or LGBT deaths perhaps, then please add them in. I don't think moving all the rights based stuff away from the timeline is the way to go as the big issues of the 21st century have been around LGBT rights, same-sex unions in particular. Maybe just one half of the year's space be about rights issues, then the other half more media/public perception based things.
Really though, what is there will be dictated by editor contributions, and editors have mainly contributed rights issues to the 21st century. If you have other events you feel are significant make some categories and add them in, your list of suggestions sounds great. Thoughts, feelings, outbursts? Philoyonder (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
OK with me to stick to sub-categories. Maybe we can have "Social History" along with the rights.
I also noticed that the links from the years link to a pages such as 1980 in LGBT rights. People have gone to a lot of trouble to create pages for each year and link them to LGBT History Timeline. Again it comes back to some editors seeing this as an LGBT Rights Timeline, at least the more recent contributions.
The categorisation means Wikpedia defines LGBT History as a set of rights achieved over the years. Important as these are, LGBT history is so much more than that.
The year links currently appearing as "1980 in LGBT rights", probably should link to pages which are like this Category:1980s in LGBT history. Sub categories should then link to the next level, such as "1980 in LGBT rights" as and when more detail is required for a particular year (or year range).
Pjthompso (talk)
PjThompso 12:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Ancient phallic symbols[edit]

The article speaks of "artifacts which suggest an appreciation of homosexual eroticism," and cites among other items, "phallic statues". I doubt these can be reliably attributed to homoeroticism. I understand that most historians and anthropologists interpret phallic statues and pillars as associated with ancient fertility rituals. MishaPan (talk) 19:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. --Eddylyons (talk) 21:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Though I think homosexuality between prehistoric males is likely, and cave art seems to depict homosexual acts, phallic symbols do not seem to be homosexual erotica, and I certainly cannot see how a dildo is! It could have been used by a woman, made for a woman! Nakamura Mondo (talk) 13:49, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

2nd Century - Relevance of bullet point[edit]

Second bullet point: "165 - Christian martyr Giustino writes: "We have learned that..." What does child prostitution have to do with LGBT history? --Eddylyons (talk) 21:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, Mister Author, I want this taken out of the article. It's irrelevant and insulting. --Eddylyons (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

11th Century - Relevance of bullet point[edit]

"In Scandinavia, the cult of transvestism persists for centuries." Transvestism is not an exclusively homosexual practice and has no place in this context. The rest of the bullet seems appropriate to the discussion. --69.30.62.114 (talk) 23:37, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Very Eurocentric[edit]

Surely there is some scholarly work out there regarding LGBT history in the Americas, Asia and Africa? --69.30.62.114 (talk) 23:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Still a problem. Asian, African, and pre-colonial American civilizations are simply absent from this timeline.    C M B J   21:32, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Jefferson (18th century)[edit]

The attribution to Thomas Jefferson of laws against sodomy (or buggery) is a misuse of his writings. Jefferson submitted a bill to the Virginia legislature that contained the sum of all laws on criminal punishment from Anglo-Saxon tradition since the Magna Carta. Jefferson wrote (page 65 of his compiled writings by Lipscomb): "In the execution of my part, I thought it material not to vary the diction of the ancient statutes by modernizing it, nor to give rise to new questions by new expressions. The text of these statutes had been so fully explained and defined, by numerous adjudications, as scarcely ever now to produce a question in our courts." I've removed the reference.75.164.233.28 (talk) 05:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

11th-century Scandinavia[edit]

The article contained some strange information about pre-christian Scandinavia. Quote: : In Scandinavia, the cult of transvestism persists for centuries. In the same way, only the sons who inherit their father's land can marry; the other ones must leave these lands and associate with military companies. Moreover, it is claimed women to remain chaste and they are severely punished if they violate this rule[citation needed]. Within military groups, pederasty is practiced as an institutionalized way of life. End Quote. I am from Scandinavia myself, and this sounds very odd for some one with a knowledge about life in pre-Christian Scandinavia (Sweden was still not Christian in the 11th-century. The information is further more not referenced, and I doubt it could be: women in Pagan Scandinavia had the same sexual rights as men and were allowed to have sex with whomever they chosed. Women was not punished in any way for having sex before Christianity, nor where there made any difference between children in and out of marriage before Christianity. The information is therefore highly controversial. Although homosexuality was not persecuted as it would be under Christianity, I have never heard it was "institutionalized". As for the transvestism I have not heard of it either, but I have left it for now. This article can really need some referencing. --Aciram (talk) 18:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

1283[edit]

No "French Civil Code" ever existed in this period. "French Civil Code" refers to the code that was published by Napoleon Ist. It is not easy discovering to which document the sentence refers : this is probably an offset of studies about "French Common Law" that was used in the north of France before the French Revolution. But for specific areas like Normandy many documents from the Xth to the XIIIth century have been lost or never existed at all. So "Common Law" was collected in many places at the end of the XIIIth century.--Leznodc (talk) 11:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Liberalisation since 1980s in parts of Christianity, Buddhismus, Hinduismus and Judaism[edit]

Since 1980s parts of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism became more liberal, accepted homosexual couples and allowed ordination of LGBT clergy.

See here articles:

That should be short mentioned in LGBT history. 188.118.143.232 (talk) 10:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Timeline of LGBT history[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Timeline of LGBT history's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceA":

  • From Clement Attlee: The Attlee Governments 1945-1951 by Kevin Jefferys
  • From North America: Zeeya Merali, Brian J. Skinner, Visualizing Earth Science, Wiley, ISBN 978-0-470-41847-5
  • From Harold Wilson: Changing party policy in Britain: an introduction by Richard Kelly
  • From Romania: "Romania". International Monetary Fund. Retrieved 20 April 2012. 
  • From Nevada: National Climatic Data Center, Asheville, N.C., and Storm Phillips, Stormfax, Inc.
  • From LGBT rights in Belarus: (From Viachaslau Bortnik's report presented at the OSCE Human Dimension Implementation Meeting, Warsaw, 4–15 October 2004; side event “Intolerance, discrimination and hate crimes based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the OSCE region”.)
  • From Nelson Mandela: Democracy and governance review: Mandela's legacy 1994-1999 by Yvonne G. Muthien, Meshack M. Khosa, and Bernard Magubane
  • From Age of Enlightenment: Beard and Gloag, Musicology, 59.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 05:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Timeline of LGBT history[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Timeline of LGBT history's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "usc.edu":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 12:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation Opportunity[edit]

The Spanish version of this article is much better. We should translate it.  :~Maiya78 09:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Western LGBT history[edit]

This article should be renamed "Timeline of Western LGBT history," or it should at least make note of articles such as Homosexuality in Japan#Ancient Japan and Homosexuality in China#Traditional views of homosexuality in China. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:28, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with this. There is NOTHING about ancient India which had a very rich and supporting understanding of variant sexual identities. The title of this article really must be changed. http://www.galva108.org/ Judderwocky (talk) 04:24, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

2014: Croatia and Malta[edit]

Croatia and Malta passed civil partnership bills. 47.64.234.44 (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

2014: Luxembourg[edit]

Luxembourg parliament passed a same-sex marriage bill. 47.64.234.44 (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

{{request edit}}[edit]


Hey there! I am writing to request an edit to reference 378 for this page. Can we update this to link directly to: http://www.stephgrantphotography.com/blog/shannon-seema-indian-lesbian-wedding-los-angeles-ca/ ? This links directly to the photographer who shot the the first Indo-American lesbian wedding, as opposed to a site of someone who does not have the rights to these photos.

Let me know if I can provide any other information, or answer any questions!

Thanks, Amy

  • Not implemented. Given the time and edits from when you posted the request the reference number has changed. Please resubmit. – S. Rich (talk) 23:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Possible split[edit]

About half this page is just the current decade. Can we either:

  • Cut out material that is not of strong historical interest
  • Develop individual year/decade articles and move most of the content into them
  • Cut this page into several discrete pages

Or more than one of those, obviously? AlexTiefling (talk) 14:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

i suggest to delete this chapter[edit]

966 – Foundation of Poland, which never criminalized homosexuality throughout its history (see 1835 and 1932).

i don't see how it's related to the topic except as an attempt of some pole to glorify their country94.154.66.240 (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

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Problem with entry for 1945[edit]

The entry for 1945 begins as follows:

"1945 – Upon the liberation of Nazi concentration camps by Allied forces, those interned for homosexuality are not freed, but required to serve out the full term of their sentences under Paragraph 175 ..."

The words required to serve out the full term of their sentences under Paragraph 175 imply that the gays in Nazi concentration camps sent there for gay activities had all been subject to due process, convicted and sentenced by a competent court of law. Was that actually the case, or had some - perhaps most - been sent straight to concentration camps by the Gestapo on the basis of gossip? Clarification would be useful. Norvo (talk) 20:37, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Brunei anti-LGBT legislation[edit]

--78.151.73.207 (talk) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC) can someone please add this in . http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/04/30/brunei-phasing-antigay-law-will-soon-allow-death-stoning --78.151.73.207 (talk) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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  • This article needs a lot of work. Many of the editors need to learn the proper methods for editing before they make changes to the article. Juri Koll (talk) 22:39, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

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  1. ^ Devereaux, George, "Greek Pseudo-homosexuality and the Greek Miracle", Symbolae Osloenses, 13 (1967), pp.70–92
  2. ^ (Percy III, 1996)
  3. ^ Plato, Laws, 636D & 835E
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference Fone was invoked but never defined (see the help page).