Talk:Victoria Park Collegiate Institute

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I really don't think half of this article should be on here. Maybe a mention of the school newspaper, but everyone who works on it? I don't think it should be there. Thoughts? Iansmcl 01:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Besides the fact that schools get to be on Wikipedia, half this article IS pretty much unimportant... Library? Accelerated Reader? Seems like spam edits or a little too much self-importance to me. Uncompetence 14:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't move Victoria Park Collegiate Institute to another Wikipedia Title. IB World School is an attribute of Victoria Park, not its sole purpose. Uncompetence 21:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

For our grade 9 english assgnment, we were supposed to create this as a class. I'm sorry if it is very long or very tedious and useless to read, but we will be printing and handing it in on Friday, so could you stop deleting the paragraphs that our class has wrote. mongoose 8 21:28, 30 May 2007

Re: Mongoose 8 This is Wikipedia, an online resource provided to everyone, not simply a grade 9 class who wishes to commandeer the page for their personal work. Uncompetence 01:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Imcompetence This article isn't locked so only we can edit it. You can change all you want, but just don't go around deleting people's work with disrespect. Just wait until Friday. mongoose 8 21:41, 30 May 2007

The problem, of course, is that WP:OWN comes into play. If your instructor wanted you to develop this just as a class, he should have arranged for a MediaWiki installation in the library that's limited to just students. Since it's on Wikipedia, it's subject to all of the guidelines (and contribution licensure) that comes with every other Wikipedia article—and the open editing that every other article is subject to. —C.Fred (talk) 03:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The Victoria Park C.I. school page is a work in progress by multiple users who are currently researching the information in person and through school records that are not available to others. This is not by any means "personal work" as it is meant to be beneficial for the entire online community. ChokingOnALifesaver 22:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Re::::, Mongoose8, I would like to say please stop talking so immaturely, even though I am on your side.

to these admins; I don't understand why this article is under question. It definately seems to have a lot of information and who are you to judge whether something is 'right' or 'wrong'?

What is wrong with having some extra information, while relating still to the school's structure? and just so you know incompetence, which definately decribes you clearly, the accelerated reader and library are indeed facilities in the school. I'm sorry that your school did not offer a library.

mongoose8, you should stay on a professional level. i believe that it is okay for the admins to delete parts and pieces of the articles they find unappropriate in wikipedia, and should not wait to a day when a class is finished, but it is NOT okay that they delete these without legit reasoning and understanding, that is unacceptable.

and lastly, who are you to judge whether someone is of enough importance or not? rephrasing what you said, this IS an encyclopedia, and a "wiki" one too. Being an admin, i suppose you'd know that. I guess i was mistaken.

I demand this "neutrality" tag be removed, as most of the information there is not only accurate, but painstaking written, as you can tell from mongoose8's post. Sure there are a few extra details here and there, but I see no opinion, no bias and certainly no wrong information. The importance of every article is equal, please do not be so biased. Your power only gain respect if used properly.

Thank you.

PS. If there is a problem with detail, there have already been attempts to make new pages without putting on this school's page. If that doesn't seem like enough to you, then I think you should go make your own "monopedia" == Anonymous_One

Guess what? It just so happens this information do help people. Lots of students and parents use this to gain some knowledge on the school beforehand. This also helped many students who wished to enroll in the I.B program but didn't know the requirements and so on. The Victoria Park C.I page is useful to many people, maybe you do not find it useful, but others do. I can't control you and tell you what is right and what is wrong, and neither can you tell others. --大虾 00:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I was not the one who 'judged' the importance of the Jack Gelbloom article as you have pointed out. That was done by the other regulars of wikipedia. Beyond the protection of this article, your stubs are the objects of scrutiny by others. Uncompetence 00:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Uncompetence'
Mine? ... "Mr Gelbloom's page was deleted as it was filed under criteria for speedy deletion. It did not assert enough importance to exist as a page and was deleted. Anonymous_One 15:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)" who else could've done that?

Re: Anonymous_One
I was making a statement. It happened. It doesn't mean I was the one who triggered it. When all new wikipedia articles are made by newer users, they are put on a list that is screened by regular users. One of them most likely flagged it. Uncompetence 01:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

jack gelbloom/all staff of vp[edit]

is there no page for mr gelbloom yet? and who else is doing the paragraphs of the staff?

Mr Gelbloom's page was deleted as it was filed under criteria for speedy deletion. It did not assert enough importance to exist as a page and was deleted. Uncompetence 15:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

School project[edit]

I address this section primarily to the other experienced Wikipedia editors.

In our zeal—and I say "our" because I'm as guilty as everybody else—we've invoked guidelines on Notability and Reliable sources and maybe even Original research, but we've forgotten something else out of the guidelines: Please do not bite the newcomers.

They've got a school assignment to edit this article. It's due tomorrow. We can't change the instructor's assignment now.

Our objective is to build the best encyclopedia possible. It's not going to happen by midnight tomorrow, though. So let's think about everything after that point. We're going to be around to edit the article, align it with the content at other schools', bring it up to WikiProject standards, adjudge notability, move it to a better title, etc.

If we completely alienate the newcomers from VPCI, though, they won't be here after Friday—or worse, they'll hang around just long enough to cause trouble and then leave.

I say let the edits stand for a day. If we can keep even one student new editor—because that's what anybody who's registered while working on this project is, a new editor, no different than any of us used to be—if we can keep them interested in the project and willing to learn more about it, so they grow into a better editor, then that's enough upside for me to say it's worth it. —C.Fred (talk) 00:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

'Re: C.Fred Thank you so much, finally, a person on the other side with a formal apology. I just wish Uncompetence up there is less ignorant too. Also, this is not merely a school project. I say this because I am rather frightened at what your "edit" is going to do. Why should this article be considered "just a school project" that has to have a header and when it will end while other ones are considered encyclopedic entries? What are you going to do once this "period" is over? Though your understand is much appreciated, I would like to state that this is a formal entry to the vast information that Wikipedia offers! I am sure that the article will not be perfect, but many aren't. If only the structure and layout of the page is edited, we [I say we, because we are a whole] will be content.

Please, we would like to turn a new page, and please treat these young editors like you don't know that they are grade 9 students doing a project, but honest, creative young minds who want to promote their school and inform the world about what a great place it is through facts. You won't be dissappointed C.Fred == Anonymous_One

One key is that there's a whole collaborative team of editors—a Wikiproject—devoted to pages on schools. They have set up their own standards about what should and shouldn't be included in articles about schools. (And if you want to see a firestorm, try nominating an article about a school for deletion.) So, they'll be looking at the article against their guidelines that try to make all school articles as uniform as possible.
One of the things they'll look at is what's unique to the school. The IB programme, for instance, is common across many schools now—and it has an article to discuss it generally. What's important here would be things specific to the school, e.g. what portion of the student body participates, if any awards have been won provincially, etc. That was my objection to the section on Guidance: all high schools have a guidance department, so it didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know about or that wasn't covered elsewhere.
Finally, I point out a phrase you use: "who want to promote their school." The objective of an encyclopedia article is to inform, not persuade. It has to be objective and tell all angles of the story, not just paint a pretty picture. Since it's a school, it's probably clear of the advertising problem per se, but a big problem is that many articles get created to sell a product or service. That's outside the realm of what Wikipedia is for—and those articles get deleted on sight. (I'm working with some editors where I deleted an article they created because it looked like ad copy. They've rewritten it to where it reads like an encyclopedia article. Another editor has opened discussion on whether that article should be deleted, and I'm now arguing to keep it.) —C.Fred (talk) 01:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I used the wrong word, when I said "promote" I meant to inform people about the features and maybe even existence of the school, not advertise it.
Thank you for trying to clear up a lot of the loose ends that was left here. We appreciate your efforts, but please realize that our work is not finished here, and some sections, I agree, are stubs right now. Hopefully, they will be extended and be more informative.
We appreciate your patience and effort thus far.
Oh! And I missed your main question. My notice doesn't mean the article is just a school project. It's up there so other editors know that the project is going on and will (hopefully) grant the concessions I proposed. You'll also notice that it's on the discussion page and not the main page itself. (Compare that to, say, Elleai D'Amore, which has two notices on the article itself because of fundamental problems in that article.) Basically I'm saying "Hey! Here's what's going on and why you see new editors doing things differently from what you see in other articles." —C.Fred (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: C.Fred
The proposition is fair enough. Summarizing, we're letting bend the guidelines until June 2nd? On another important strand, how will the protection of stubs deriving from this project be handled? Uncompetence 00:46, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Right. Let's cut lots of slack on the procedural stuff. Feel free to edit grammar and spelling, though (don't forget to use Canadian English!). If any stubs have been protected, that's done. The problem with the creation of other articles is, a lot of anti-vandalism tools pick up creation of new articles, and the new articles probably won't point back here, so well-meaning admins will (correctly) delete them on sight. When the article is recreated, they will (correctly) protect the page.'s beyond the scope of what we can do.
To the VPCI students present: did your assignment include the creation of articles about certain instructors? If it's necessary to create the pages, I've got an idea for how to keep them beyond the scope of speedy deletion, and if need be, I'll write an email open comment addressed to your instructor on why the pages got created named like they did. —C.Fred (talk) 01:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)   revised 02:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Apparently the deadline is Sunday, so let's let it bend until the 4th. —C.Fred (talk) 03:16, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: C.Fred
Anyways, there is no instructor, and you won't expect to find any email of anybody. Please post here or send me an email, I will forward accordingly.
mail to :
Thank you. == Anonymous_One

Thanks alot guys. This really means a lot on our behalves. --GenerationHope 01:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Just from what I hear of the other students in the class, there are a number of articles that should be linking to this one, or will be. I believe C.Fred is referring to the teacher of your class, Mr. Pascoe. M. Pascoe I don't believe can easily be reached through e-mail, but I can contact him. Uncompetence 01:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
How have you been contacting the students of the school? and how do you plan to reach this "Mr. Pascoe" that you speak of?
If that was directed at my reply up there, then please do not assume things like "my class", because I have NEVER mentioned I am part of that class, nor am I saying now that I am. == Anonymous_One
So, this is something not new then. Just started prodding subpages here. Thought it was pure vandalism. I'll just stop, then. For now. But this all sounds like a really bad idea.Greswik 15:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

DECA and SPC cards[edit]

Can somebody specify what the SPC cards are that DECA distributed? SPC is a disambiguation page, and it isn't clear which of those things the cards are. I have a hunch it's none of the above, so SPC may need spelled out. —C.Fred (talk) 01:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey C.Fred
The SPC cards are, I believe, "Student Price Card", which offers discounts are numerous stores and facilities across the area.
If it is a misspelling of the SAC cards, which are, probably, "Student Activity Card". == Anonymous_One

argh, sorry, i went to the Student Price Card page before putting the link and it redirected me from SPC...I'll fix that right now. --GenerationHope 01:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I changed it, but i can't put it in plural, because then the link wouldn't work. Any ideas? --GenerationHope 01:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Any link can have letters added after it that will tack on. So, [[Student Price Card]]s. becomes Student Price Cards. —C.Fred (talk) 01:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

thanks alot --GenerationHope 01:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Cutting down on some of the text[edit]

I've removed some of the text that is not appropriate for Wikipedia; for example, the sports section does not have to log the yearly results of all the teams, just times they won the championship. The names of the student council likewise do not belong. The entire paragraph about the goals and achievements of the students is not necessary. Keep in mind that the article is meant to describe the notable aspects of the school; it's not blog where anything goes. Apparently the article was started as a student project, and it shows. Please see Balboa High School (San Francisco), which was a featured article, for an idea of what a good article about a school should look like. ... discospinster talk 23:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

We realise the non-wiki-friendly format of the page, however, as discussed with C.Fred, the article will be let 'loose' of the rigorous regulations of wikipedia in order for a school project to be accomplished. Thank you for your concern, Uncompetence 03:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Note that C.Fred from what I've seen to date has merely asked that other editors refrain from vigilantly enforcing Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines, but unless he's stating that wearing his administrator's hat (which I don't think he is), it is only a request that editors are free to ignore. Personally, I don't agree that the Please do not bite the newcomers guideline and the fact this is a school project should exempt the article from standards even temporarily, but I'm willing to give it a chance. However, I wouldn't read C.Fred's comments as a carte blanche to revert or ignore other editors who chose to edit the page. - Fordan (talk) 08:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to keep this article in line with the rest of the encyclopedia, and I have a right to do that. If it's imperative that the class's version be printed out and handed in, that's possible by going back into the history and using the older version. ... discospinster talk 13:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Post-Project Wikifying[edit]

Considering that the project end date has finally been crossed, its safe to say that this article requires a good deal of wikifying. It would help organize a great deal if all preceding discussion as well as change notifications were to be placed under this subtitle.

List of First Sweeping Changes

  • Removed Student Attitude Section (Purely Subjective)
  • Merged

International Baccalaureate Program at Victoria Park AND
The History of International Baccalaureate At Victoria Park AND
Application to IB at Victoria Park
(Removed non-specific informations)

  • Removed IB at Victoria Park (Again, general information on IB not VP)
  • Removed Benefits/Disadvantages of IB Program (Purely Subjective)
  • Removed Ambitions and Goals (Purely Subjective)
  • Removed all links to User:Benhu's subpages

Lists of Changes that Should be Made

  • Removal of all FIRST PERSON
  • Moving of Victoria Park CI & IB World School to only Victoria Park CI in keeping with wiki-school standards
  • Removal of all paragraphs on specific annual events

(?) Unclear Changes

  • Removal of Teams and Clubs (?)
  • Removal of Staff Listing (?)

For reference, I've archived a page of everything before the above changes here
Uncompetence 03:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

List of Second Sweeping Changes

  • Merged Redundant 'Recent Student Achievements' with Academic Achievements
  • Merged Redundant 'Student Leadership Council Members' with Student Leadership Council
  • Removed White Pine (Non-Specific to Victoria Park)

Uncompetence 21:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

List of Third Phase Changes

  • Removed numerous clubs/groups
Individual clubs at VP do not require attention on Wikipedia. There are over 60 clubs at VP and they do not require Wikipedia to propagate their information. A school website exists for this purpose, this information is not generally notable.
  • Removed Special Events
Nearly all schools have a prom or a semi-formal. Victoria Park's proms or semi-formals do not deserve any special attention as if Justin Timberlake had performed. Uncompetence 04:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Move back to VPCI[edit]

Is there anybody who objects to moving the article back to Victoria Park Collegiate Institute? It's consistent with the styling of article names for other secondary schools. —C.Fred (talk) 21:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll second the moving back of the article. Uncompetence 22:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I've performed the move. ... discospinster talk 12:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)