Talk:Vilna Ghetto

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Starvation and Diseases

In the opening paragraph of this article it states that starvation and diseases along with executions and deportations contributed to the destruction of the inhabitants of the Vilna Ghetto. However in fact, due to the remarkable public efforts of the Jewish Medical community in Vilna the death rates from disease and starvation were held to a level such that unlike in Warsaw or Lodz, natural causes of death in the Vilna Ghetto were barely above prewar levels (Warsaw 107/1000, Lodz 133/1000, Vilna Ghetto 30/1000 compared to prewar levels of 13/1000). Thus, in Vilna Jewish deaths were almost entirely attributable to genocide. see: Grodin, Michael (2014) Jewish Medical Resistance in the Vilna Ghetto. P. 129Berghahn Books ISBN 978-1-78238-418-2 ````

Concern

I'm concerned about this sentence: "Nazi soldiers aimed to kill 11,000,000 Jews and ended up killing 6,000,000 - a failure to the German army." It undermines the tragedy of the 6 million lost. Anybody else have an opinion? Tullyis (talk) 02:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the article from Vilna Ghetto to Wilna Ghetto because this name is more logical, as Wilna is German name for the city. The name Vilna was not used for the city for a long time by the time ghetto was established. Vilne is the Yiddish name for the city. Burann 16:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But Vilna was the English language name for the city before 1945 (from both Jewish and Catholic English language sources) --Henrygb 09:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Vilnius#Names: The names Wilno and Vilna have also been used in older English and French language publications. Xx236 10:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What’s the Great Provocation?

Question: What was "The Great Provocation" of September 2, mentioned in the article? Dr. Dan 14:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Anyone know? Dr. Dan 03:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Answer: The Great Provocation means the incident the Nazis staged as a pretext for clearing the predominantly (poorer) Jewish quarter in the Vilna Old Town in order to force the rest of the (predominantly more affluent) Jewish residents into the Nazi-created ghetto. The numbers in this article look suspect, i.e., suspiciously low, for the Jewish population remaining after the Lithuanian volunteers had a crack at exterminating the Vilna Jews in the first wave of terror in the summer of 1941. Specifically, the Great Provocation of 31 AUGUST 1941 was led by SS officer Einsatzkommando 9 Oberscharführer Horst Schweinberger under orders from Gebietskommissar of the Vilnius municipality Hingst and Murer, Hingst’s deputy for Jewish affairs, under “provisional directives” of Reichskommisar H. Lohse. Murer, Hingst and Vilnius mayor Dabulevichius selected site for future ghetto and staged a sniping at German soldiers in front of a cinema from a window on the corner Stikliu (Glezer, also known as Szklana) and Didzioji (Wielka, meaning Great Street, part of the reason for the name for the event) streets by two Lithuanians in civilian clothes who had broken into an apartment belonging to Jews. The Lithuanians fled the apartment, then returned with waiting German soldiers, seized two Jews, accused them of firing on the German soldiers, beat them and then shot them on the spot. Stikliu and Mesiniu (Jatkowa) streets were ransacked by the local militia and Jews were beaten up. At night, in “retaliation,” all Jews were driven out of the neighborhood the Nazis had selected as the future ghetto territory, street by street, and the next day the women and children on remaining streets were seized while the men were at work. Men at workplaces were also seized. Jews were taken to Lukishkes prison, then to Paneriai (Ponar, Ponary), where they were murdered on September 1-3. Five to ten thousand people were murdered, including ten members of the Judenrat. The objective was to clear a territory for the establishment of a ghetto to imprison all the Jews of Vilnius and suburbs. (Arad, Dr. Yitzhak, “Ghetto in Flames: The Struggle and Destruction of the Jews in Vilna in the Holocaust,” Holocaust Library, New York, 1982, pp. 101-105; Kruk, Herman, “The Last Days of the Jerusalem of Lithuania. Chronicles from the Vilna Ghetto and the Camps, 1939-1944,” edited and introduced by Benjamin Harshav, translated by Barbara Harshav, YIVO Institute for Jewish Research, Yale University Press, New Haven and London, 2002, pp. 81-83, 94; Šhuras, Grigorijus [Grigori Shur], “Užrašiai: Vilniaus geto kronika 1941-1944,” ERA, Vilnius, 1977, pg. 35.)

As to naming conventions, "Wilna" is probably the least accessible. "Vilna" is the most common name for the city in English in Holocaust literature and generally in works by Jewish authors. "Vilnius" is the Lithuanian name. "Wilno" is the Polish name, and the majority language at the time of the German invasion was Polish; Lithuanians had only recently regained their ancient capital thanks to Stalin and were attempting to Lithuanianize the city. The Yiddish name for the city is usually transliterated "Vilna" and the Hebrew is usually transliterated "Vilne." "Vilno" was the common transliteration from Russian, although Russian speakers now say "Vilnius."

PS I must be going blind, I can't find the Great Provocation mentioned in the wiki article. 81.7.91.43 12:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You’re not going blind: It isn’t there; but if what you’ve written above is true, it certainly should be. If for some reason you can’t work the above into the article (you seem to have access to the sources and to be familiar with them), I will give it a try. Best regards, Jim_Lockhart 13:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll see what I can do in the next few days. The article barely skims the surface of the Vilna ghetto, there are many more stories to tell about what went on. To do it justice the article should be expanded. Kruk's library, for example, deserves treatment. When they lent out the 100,000th book to ghetto readers, an awards ceremony was held and Kruk delivered a presentation on library statistics. It's interesting that the most popular book was The Forty Days of Musa Dagh by Austrian-Jewish author Franz Werfel about the Turkish genocide against the Armenians in 1915. Hopefully I can get around to it.

81.7.91.43 14:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Wilna2 tn.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Vilne" Yiddish song

Here for this: http://www.antiwarsongs.org/canzone.php?lang=it&id=48295 Maybe it could be somewhere in the article, so I post the song here. --95.234.188.155 (talk) 21:23, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vilna?

Ping User:Renata3. User:Poeticbent. Isn't the Russian name least appopriate? Vilnius or Wilno would likely be better. At the same time: GBooks: Vilna Ghetto - 14,100 hits. "Wilno Ghetto" - 841 hits. Vilnius Ghetto - 4,180. Wilna Ghetto - 245. Vilne Ghetto - 377. Keeping it under Vilna does allow us to avoid the usual Polish/Lithuanian choice dilemma, but seriously, why Russian? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:41, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Its Polish residents knew it as Wilno, Germans officially called in Wilna for most of the war, and Jews referred to it as Vilna (in Hebrew), or Vilne (in Yiddish), according to Andrew Noble Koss (2010). Remaking of Jewish Vilna, 1914-1918. Stanford University. p. ix. — I think, keeping WP:NAME as the Hebrew alt. spelling (GBooks tally included) is probably the best answer to the usual Polish/Lithuanian dilemma. It isn't just Russian. Poeticbent talk 16:36, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Poeticbent is correct. In this instance, Vilna is from Hebrew, not from Russian. Renata (talk) 17:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Arad refers to the ghetto as Vilna Ghetto in Ghetto in Flames, Tushnet does likewise in Pavement of Hell, but Shneidman does use The Three Tragic Heroes of the Vilnius Ghetto. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:08, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, I've added the important clarification that Vilna is also a Hebrew name (it previously stated it was Russian spelling) to the article. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Ghetto Vilinus.gif

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:45, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]