Talk:West Syrian Rite

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What rite do you have?[edit]

Oknazevad recently asked me about the West Syrian liturgical rites article I created. My motivation for creating it was that the scope of this article is confused. This article, based on the Catholic Encyclopedia article, primarily discusses the rite practiced by the Syriac Orthodox Church and Syriac Catholic Church. The sources I used list this rite as one of three distinct but related rites in the same family, together with the Maronite Rite and the Malankara Rite. I started West Syrian liturgical rites as a quick attempt to deal with this. There are a few things we can do to deal with this. We could rewrite this article to discuss all three rites. However, no source I've seen outside of Wikipedia uses the specific name "West Syrian Rite" to discuss all three rites. It would have to be rewritten and retitled. Or, we could write this article to discuss specifically the Syriac Orthodox/Syriac Catholic rite, and discuss how the others are related (which is what I tried to do with the intro). In this case, we would still need a place to discuss the family of rites. Thoughts?--Cúchullain t/c 13:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Britannica says that the "Antiochene rite", which it defines as the whole family of rites I mentioned above, is also called the "West Syrian rite". So perhaps we wouldn't need a new title after all, but a total rewrite would be in order.--Cúchullain t/c 13:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
(Trying to avoid rolling eyes at punny title). As I said at your talk page, the way I've always understood it, through my studies, is that the Malankara and Marionite are not distinct rites so much as variant usages that developed because of the independant operations of each church (with the marionite being pretty Latinized, though the post-Vatican II de-Latinization has undone some of that). As soon as I saw your mention of Britannica, I remebered that they may have influenced my understanding (he says as he looks at the old Britannica set on the shelf).
As for how distinct they actually are, I don't know enough to say for certain. I'm still trying to get an understanding of the differences between the West and East Syrian rites. oknazevad (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Syro Malankara church uses a variant of the original liturgy of the Syriac orthodox church. Hence picture of the Syriac orthodox liturgy is apt in this context.Mandrake_the_Magician (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

This article is not about the liturgy of the Syriac orthodox church. Its about "West-Syrian" liturgy. Now there may be many variants and the one followed by Syriac Orthodox Church is one of the variants. - (talk) 22:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

It is always better to show the original version than the variant.Mandrake_the_Magician (talk) 22:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

please see below section for my queries - (talk) 23:06, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Pictures of Holy Mass of Churches follows West Syrian Rite[edit]

Today there are many churches following West Syrian Rite.

There was a picture of Holy Mass of Syro-Malankara Catholic Church in this article. Recently this has been replaced with another picture - Holy Mass of Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church. Since both Syro-Malankara Catholic Church and Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church (Syriac Orthodox Church) follows West Syrian liturgy, what is the point in removing first picture? Let us keep both the pictures - (talk) 22:49, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

The current picture added by User:Kokkarani is not the Holy Mass of Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, it is the Holy Mass of Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church. please note, Malankara rite is practiced by various churches that descend from the Malankara Church, namely the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, the Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church, the Malabar Independent Syrian Church, and the Mar Thoma Syrian Church. In this case removing the picture of Holy Mass of Syro-Malankara Catholic Church and keeping only Jacobite Church picture is not fair !! - (talk) 14:27, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church is an integral part of Syrian Orthodox Church. I don't understand why you are refusing the original liturgy and accepting a variant of the West Syrian liturgy formed only in 1930 AD. Syriac Orthodox Church has been using this liturgy of St James from the Apostolic era and is the most ancient liturgy available. So you think a variant liturgy formed in 1930 AD should represent the West Syrian liturgy?Mandrake_the_Magician (talk) 00:10, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I do not have any disagreement with the statement Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church is an integral part of Syrian Orthodox Church. But need some clarity on following ponts:
1)You said Syro-Malankara church is using a variant of West-Syrian Liturgy. Which is this variant? Is this variant known as 'Malankara Rite'? What is the difference between West Syrian Liturgy and this variant?
2)Which is the liturgy practiced in Jacobite Syrian Christian Church? is it West Syrian or its variant??
3)Which is the liturgy practiced in Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church?? is it West Syrian or its variant?? - (talk) 16:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kokkarani, you have not provided clarifications for above queries. Instead of that you changed the title of the article "Malankara Rite" to "Syro Malankara Rite" and did these changes in the article. Very Good Response!! - (talk) 23:50, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 5 August 2016[edit]

This article is not about liturgy of the syriac orthodox church. Its about West Syrian liturgy and today many churches follows that. It is not fair to remove the liturgical services of other churches who follows West Syrian Liturgy.- (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. clpo13(talk) 22:30, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
Not done Also, get consensus for the change first, then use the template. --NeilN talk to me 22:32, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
Please see the above section - (talk) 22:49, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Please read the article . It says many churches descended from Syriac Orthodox Church are using variants of the West Syrian liturgy. However the liturgy practiced in the Syriac Orthodox church is the primary source one for all other churches descended from it. Hence it is apt to show the liturgy of the Syriac Orthodox church in this context.Mandrake_the_Magician (talk) 00:15, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kokkarani, you have not provided answers for the 3 questions I raised in above section - 23:39, 13 August 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)