Talk:Yume Nikki/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

The state of this article

There was a bit of a mess that was best resolved by recreating this article.

See, Yume Nikki was AfD'd and deleted twice due to sourcing concerns. I made an userfied copy for one of its authors, and it received several edits. Then a hitherto unrelated editor copypasted it to Yume nikki, and that copy received several edits as well. Someone another asked me to resolve any possible attribution problems, and for a chance to fix the problems behind the previous deletions.

I crammed everything into this page's history, which I strongly hope to be an acceptable solution. I then left the article standing for SomeoneAnother: the fact that he started the second AfD speaks for his judgement, and his plan sounds feasible. It's unorthodox, but the game's unorthodox. (I could've userfied the article for him, but I'm not about to make this any more complicated! A bot already tagged one copy as a possible copyvio from Wikibin!)

I recommend backing off for a few days to let him work. Jumping straight at prodding or a third AfD would cause commotion and hurt our chances of gaining a valid article. Discussion on this talk page would be a good thing, but if anyone uses writing quality as an argument for deletion I'll come over there and slap that person with a fish. Thank you. --Kiz o r 18:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to nominate this article for deletion as I think notability has been established, but the sourcing still needs to be improved: the 'gameplay' and 'disturbing elements' sections have no sources whatsoever. Robofish (talk) 21:34, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I haven't forgotten the article, but the purchase of a new Wii alongside.. stuff IRL has chewed through my time. I have found a pretty in-depth post from Lewis Denby on his personal blog here, which is the analysis of the game this article desperately needs. Once the non-neutrality has been teased out, that source will enable me to tinker with what's here, remove any original research and use it to reword and restructure what's left. Someone another 22:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Embarassing.. Denby's blog is the Honest Gamers review but with an extra paragraph at the bottom, so I've just removed the Honest Gamers citation. I just skimmed through the blog post without checking the other, so coming across the new text threw me. Despite that, the post (including the new paragraph which is in itself useful) contains a lot of material for rewriting gameplay and themes, though they might end up being merged once I get further through. Someone another 19:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, folks. Can we get a decent citation on the fact that an area is modeled directly after EarthBound? The one guide references the area with NES-style graphics, the overworld map, and the small sprites as the EarthBound area, but this doesn't actually look anything like EarthBound, which was on SNES, and had no overworld map. Maybe this area could be said to look a bit like Mother, which was the precursor to EarthBound on the NES, but given the fantasy setting and overworld map, I would say it bears a similarity much more to Dragon Warrior (which has a more or less identical menu screen to EarthBound). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.60.214 (talk) 14:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Needs the original website because it is one of the most reliable sources. Also, needs more citations from reliable game reviews. We can do this no problem. 74.194.224.252 (talk) 18:16, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Done, I believe this to be Kikiyama's official website - http://www3.nns.ne.jp/pri/tk-mto/, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I'm going to look through some Japanese pages and see if I can possibly find reviews, fan-sites, etc. I don't know what I can do with them, hopefully citations, but I'm finding them here and there. If you want to find Japanese sites just type ゆめにっき into a search engine (like I had to tell you that) However, the Kanji for, "Dream Diary" is 夢日記. It will not pull up as many direct results and most results will be, literally, dream diaries.ACID MAISON (talk) 01:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

It would be awesome if certain people would stop deleting entire sections from this article before I have the time to add reference tags to them. Really, really awesome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.105.46 (talk) 01:30, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Although, it mentions several times on the edit page that content you add must be verifiable. It would be really, really awesome if you could cite reliable secondary sources in the first instance. Particularly with fan/community related information that is rarely reported on by the kind of sources we rely on. What are the references you have? Marasmusine (talk) 07:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I have no clue as of yet how to do any of that as of yet. This is a labor of love that I recreated this article with no prior knowledge of how to edit a Wiki page. I'm really tired of editors like you coming in and deleting entire sections of this article with no word of warning prior and with no effort to try and improve on content. Make some effort into improving on the article as a whole. In other words: "Please help improve this article by adding reliable references."68.231.105.46 (talk) 23:10, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Added many references. Hopefully there won't be a problem anymore. Also currently adding a Kotaku and GamePixie review that went unnoticed, trying to find some way to mention the great TV Tropes page on the game, or at least cite it. ACID MAISON (talk)

I know you'd like to have the fan sites mentioned in the article, but I must stress that we only do so if they have been covered by reliable secondary sources. As I mentioned above, this is a rare occurance. I see you've added citations, but these reference the fan sites and blogs themselves which do not qualify as reliable sources. Likewise, each of those remakes will need to be independently verifiable.

I'd be happy to improve the section on fan contrubutions, as you say, by adding reliable references. But as far as I can tell there aren't any.

I'm afraid TV Tropes doesn't meet WP:RS, but Kotaku is fine.

Also, if I may respond to your statement "This is a labor of love..."; please bear in mind our policy on ownership of articles. Marasmusine (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

What secondary resources are you wanting to verify a secondary resource? I admit that some of the fan content that has been posted should be taken off, and was more of a cram to expand upon the article in spades, fast. But I feel that to delete that entire section again would be extremely inappropriate on your part at this point. Consider that, thus far, the anonymity of the creator, Kikiyama, is highly disproportionate to the response this game has received and the culture that now surrounds it. As far as I know, the creator has done no interviews, and has said practically nothing about this game. The soundtrack alone could merit a section for it's uncanny resemblance to certain Earthbound and Silent Hill pieces and the undeniable influence it takes from those games, however none of that would be WP:V. There are hundreds of fan created works related in part to this franchise, none of it WP:V. But the site Madotsuki's Closet is roughly WP:V, and it covers enough of the game as a whole to be a continued source of research for the user. Surely it is worth mentioning. It now holds one of the few download links outside of Kikiyama's official website, and has an amazing wealth of knowledge and insight to the game which needs to be, at least, linked on this article. Instead of just saying that this article isn't up to standards dozens of times over, if you feel the contribs section needs to be purged and the information needs to be migrated into other sections of the article, by all means do so. For that matter, at some later time in date I myself will probably do so. I encourage you to put the amount of work I've done into this page, but highly discourage further mass deletion. Until I can go about translating the Kikiyama's site to search for other references, this is what we have to work with.

Aside from this mess, I would like to state that the following is all I would like from the further changes to this page:

Makes note of any location where you can assuredly download the English release of Yume Nikki.
Makes at least passing mention that fan created sequels have been modeled directly after Yume Nikki.
Holds enough content to not get AfD'd again.

The reason I hold my ground on these issues are solely because of fear that this article will get AfD'd at a later time.ACID MAISON (talk)

Maybe we can come to some kind of compromise. I'll tackle your first question first, as perhaps I wasn't clear on the usage. When using external sites, this might be for two different reasons:

You're using it as a source for the article,
Or you're writing about the external site within the article.

With the sites in question (M's Closet and KAKE-Bar): 1) these can almost certainly not be used as sources, as detailed at WP:V - specifically these are self-published sources (read WP:SPS). 2) is a possibility, and one would need reliable sources about those fan sites in order for us to mention them here.

The usage of fan-site and fan remakes has been tackled at the Video games article guidelines, at WP:VG/EL. The concensus is that they are not appropriate content. I can perhaps bend that guideline: If you consider Madotsuki's Closet to be the best of the fan sites, and there's concensus amongst a wider group of editors, then I won't object to having it listed in the external links section.

Finally, I'll respond to your bullet points.

I partially agree: One download source other than the official page is appropriate, since the official page is not in english and the game is freeware. External links need to be kept to a minimum.
We can make passing mentions of the sequels if reliable publications have also done so.
I can reassure you that the chances of this article being deleted are low. The coverage at Kotaku, Gamertell and TIGSource is strong, and these are considered reliable sources. Therefore there's a strong case for notability and inclusion in the encyclopedia.

I don't want you to think I'm some lone nut who's got it in for you, so I'll post a request for comments at the video games wikiproject. Marasmusine (talk) 15:17, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad we're coming to a kind of consensus here, and think that the end result is that it's really improving the article as a whole. I'll get to work on what you've suggested and update soon give an update on this page when I'm able to.

ACID MAISON (talk • contribs) 23:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay, the Fan Contributions section still fails WP:V and I've exhausted my sources. I have left in the link to M's Closet as a compromise, but of course another editor may still remove this if they are performing WP:VG/EL cleanup. Marasmusine (talk) 22:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Sequels?

I've discovered evidence of two sequels, Yume 2kki and .flow, however i have failed to locate any other reliable sources rather than video footage on youtube. No point really unless you want to ad a section with a few sentences. Wolfantom (talk) 14:29, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

From what I recall, we've ran into a few problems relating to inclusion of (unofficial fan) sequels. Inclusion has potential issues in regards to verifiability due to the lack of reliable sources available; in addition, fan sequels such as Yume 2kki may not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria (after all, they were not made by the same author, and they merely have similarities in gameplay and art), and it is due to these policies that this article has been sent to Articles for Deletion numerous times. I think, given Wikipedia policy, these things are better left on other websites, such as the Yume Nikki Wikia. At least the current state of this article meets all of Wikipedia's policy requirements; it would be preferable if the status quo isn't changed too much. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 15:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Genre

Somebody has defined Yume Nikki on the English language page as a surreal horror. I don't feel this is accurate given that it was only ever defined as an "adventure game" (アドベンチャーゲーム) in the original Japanese. Defining Yume Nikki as Horror is making crude and sweeping generalisations about the style and nature of the game. 82.35.5.2 (talk) 12:14, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

However, the claim that the game is "psychedelic" isn't the best way to describe it either, as doing so would be original research. Though I am all open for alternatives to "surreal horror", I don't think calling the game "psychedelic" like in a recent edit is a good choice. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 15:56, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

The game is self-evidently psychedelic (i.e. characterized by hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness... it's unarguably set in a dream world and the lines between dream and reality become blurred in the ending) where as Horror denotes an intention by the maker to strive to elicit the emotions of fear, disgust and horror primarily, and that's not something that's ever explicitly been said. 'Surreal adventure game' is a good compromise. 82.35.5.2 (talk) 20:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 05:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

UBOA

Should we mention UBOA? 67.174.105.246 (talk) 04:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

He already was mentioned. "Players explore the dreams of the character Madotsuki (窓付き?, lit. windowed). Travelling through her dreams, the player encounters surreal and sometimes disturbing scenes, such as being swallowed by a large red sewer-creature, meeting a disembodied head character known as Uboa (ウボァ?) and a full-screen rotating image of a girl with five arms." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.15.62.73 (talk) 13:27, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Playism-Games Link

I wanted to add a link for the Yume Nikki page at Playism-Games. At the moment it's probably the most western-friendly website to download Doujin PC games. In the case of Yume Nikki, it provides a user-friendly installer for the game; similar on how GOG.com packages their games to make them run smoothly on newer machines.

LSD Simulator link in See also section

Is this necessary? Other than sharing some themes, the two games have no connections, and I don't really see this type of thing anywhere else. AntiGravityMaster (talk) 20:11, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

If it can't be placed in prose (and I haven't even found articles comparing this to Undertale, which is way more similar), then it shouldn't exist as just a "See also" section. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Review Sourcing

hey, i'm pretty new to video game pages and not sure what types of review sources are legit for use in wiki - could someone please provide some pointers? Balle010 (talk) 14:00, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

@Balle010: WP:VG/RS for dedicated video game sources. The reliable list there should basically answer everything. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 15:22, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- thank you, will read over Balle010 (talk) 19:00, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Madotsuki isn't a hikikomori

Made an edit. At no point in the game is there clear indication of why Madotsuki doesn't want to leave her bedroom. None of the major sources referenced I've checked in this page interpret her as so, either. Sokuseno (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Manga/light novel adaptations: "official"?

Having trouble deciding what the best terminology here is. RS variably refer to the manga and light novel adaptations as "official", "semi-official", or just "adaptations"/"spin-offs". PCGamer, I think, says they were made with Kikiyama's approval, but without their "direct involvement". At this point I have no clue if the article should use the word "official" or not, so I've been leaving it off just in case. Would like comments from anyone interested. Cheers! Bluecrystal004 (talk · contribs) 02:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Yume Nikki/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sparkl (talk · contribs) 18:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
Is it verifiable with no original research?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
Standard reflist.

B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

C. It contains no original research:

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
See below.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
Addresses the game with a standard layout. I'm a bit concerned about the "Legacy" section being the largest in the article. The sections about the game itself seems a bit lacking as well, but it's probably the most that section can be expanded. See below.

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
See below.
Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
No concerns
Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
See below.

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
See below.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Opening comments

I like RPG Maker games, so why not? Will get to this during the weekend. Sparkl^talk 18:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry that I haven't been reviewing this lately. I have some personal tasks at hand at the moment, so I hope you don't mind the wait. Sparkl^talk 18:24, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

No worries, take your time. Currently have a lot on my plate as well. ~Bluecrystal004^{(talk · contribs)} 23:19, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Again, really sorry about the long wait. Will review this fully by the weekend. I'll next review the sources, and then the prose. Sparkl^talk 16:18, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Images

I am a bit skeptical about the fair use rationale of the manga image under the "Legacy" section. Is it really necessary to include here? I would like a further explanation on how it benefits the reader, as the image looks no different than the game, showing Madotsuki riding a bike.
Probably not necessary, I can remove it. ~Bluecrystal004^{(talk · contribs)} 15:14, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Branching off of this, I am a bit confused on what the caption meant by attempting to explain too much of the game's universe. Did people not like the manga because the story was too confusing or did people not like the lore?
I can clarify the prose. It was literally criticized for attempting that, as in people didn't want explanations for things in the game. ~Bluecrystal004^{(talk · contribs)} 15:14, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
The rest of the images are valid under fair use.

Broad

Everything in this article seems to work out fine. My only concern about "being focused on the topic" is the "Legacy" section is a bit large compared to the other sections. Are there any chances to expand upon the sections about the game or is the article in its current state the most the sections can be expanded?
I'm going to weak pass this on broadness and assume good faith that you gathered as many sources as you can to cover this game. I would suggested expanding the sections about the game itself (Gameplay, Reception, and especially the development, if possible). I'm also going to respect and assume faith on the length of the development section as the developer doesn't seem to be keen on providing information about themselves or the game.

The reception section can't really be expanded, there's only a few critic reviews of the game. The gameplay is pretty simple and I think there's a good overview already; adding much more would drift into being overly detailed fan trivia. As you mentioned, almost nothing is known about the developer or the development. I might see if there's anything important in the sources I could still add, I guess.

Copyvio

Nothing prominent pops up in Earwig's copyvio detector. The only things that came to close paraprasing were short phrases such as "a manga and a light novel" or "horror games like...", but I don't think you can write this in your own words without changing the meaning. Otherwise, I recommend paraphrasing as neccessary.
Project Yume Nikki, which managed the official merchandise, also stated that these adaptations were not meant to be reflective of Kikiyama's original vision for the game This sort of comes close to the PC Gamer source: Even the Yume Nikki project, the website that handles the official merchandise, stresses that the additional material does not reflect Kikiyama’s original vision of the game.. I recommend paraprashing this if possible.

Done

Sources

Do we need Ref #6 (the Steam reference, which is a primary source)? Is there a reliable source stating the release date on Steam? This is not absolutely mandatory, but it would prove verifiability better.

It's the only source that gives an exact date, while for example the Wired source says "two weeks ago".

So I was looking at Ref #8 and #20 (Rock Paper Shotgun), and got a bit skeptical about the authenticity of the source considering the author is a contributor has made opiniated articles with title like these. I would give this one a weak pass as Rock Paper Shotgun is attributed well in the body.
Is Ref #11 and #14 reliable (what is this japanese publication)?

Netlab, a Japanese general culture magazine. I also added ref #12 with #11 to support.

What does Ref #13 do again? I can't read Japanese, but it appears to be a primary source. There's nothing wrong with that as long as it's not heavily used, but it is preferable to replace the same cited information with a secondary, reliable source.

It was advertising/announcing the soundtrack CD and Vocaloid album, on the project's website. I removed the line about music anyway.

DualShockers is listed as a situational source according to WP:VG/S, but it is used for an attributed opinion, so therefore reliable.

Nothing else left.

Original research

On leaving the room, Madotsuki enters an area commonly referred to as the Nexus, which contains 12 new doors. The sources in this section didn't say there were 12 doors. All of them just said "multiple".

Done - weird, changed. A review of the sequel has a mention of 12 but I don't think it's necessary to include.

Other objects and NPCs can send Madotsuki to different areas, ... and ... shows Madotsuki jumping off of the balcony of her apartment. I had trouble finding if and where these are sourced. I only checked the sources in the section, so perhaps other sources can cite this?

Done - For the first one, I removed "and NPCs". In the HG101 review, "...occasionally interacting with an object will transport you to a new location." The second implicitly cites the game itself, per WP:PLOTSOURCE.

Despite this, many elements often associated with role-playing games are absent, such as dialogue and combat. I was a bit concerned about this sentence, as the Eurogamer source doesn't explicitly say this: Though created using RPG Maker, Yume Nikki has etc. This also sounds like it would fit in the Gameplay section.

Done

Originally receiving a limited Japanese-only release, Yume Nikki later gained a larger cult following in the West, due in part to its fan-made English translation. This is not necessarily an original research issue, but information about the English version would really go well in the "Development and release" section, as that section doesn't say anything about an english translation.

Done - added a mention.

Yume Nikki has inspired the creation of a number of fangames, some of which have attempted to explore theories about the original game. The sources cited here don't explicitly say that the fangames attemped to explain theories, rather the game itself inspired the creation of the theories.

Done - the ref got deleted at some point

It has also influenced other indie games, including Ao Oni, Ib, Lisa: The First, Undertale and Omori. As far as I know, I only see Omori being "compared" rather than "influenced" in the sources.

Done

The light novel is titled Yume Nikki: I Am Not in Your Dream, and was written by Akira and illustrated by Aco Arisaka. Regarding the footnote, the Anime News Network source says that the translated title is "Inside of Your Dream, I Am Not There", but the IGN source says "I Am Not in Your Dream". I can't tell which is the actual one.

The English publication is called "I Am Not in Your Dream", ANN was just using a (rather clunky) translation prior to release

A Vocaloid image song album titled Yume Nikki no Tame no Waltz was produced for the project by Machigerita. This is sourced to a primary and secondary source of unknown reliability. Unless the unknown source can be proven to be reliable or if there are other reliable, secondary sources covering this, the sentence should be removed.

Done

Along with the release of Yume Nikki on Steam, a two-week countdown appeared on the Kadokawa Games website. "Appearing on the Kadokawa Games website" is unsourced.

Done - I might have just inserted the wrong Polygon article as a ref, not sure

That's about it.

Neutral

Nothing prominent here. It seems like everything here is written factually, with opinions and statements being appropriately attributed to authors and sources. I made a few changes along the way, such as:

Removing "completely" in Kikiyama's status was unknown as they were completely unresponsive to all contact.
Replacing "Some" with "A theory" in Some speculated that they had died, possibly in the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake. (Since the sources mostly say it was a theory)
Replaced "worse than" with "not as good as" in Critics comparing the two games generally felt that Dream Diary was worse than the original.. This kind of sounded like Dream Diary was really bad. The sources don't necessarily say the reboot was bad anyways.

Prose

Will review the prose once all of the above is addressed.

Lead and infobox

The game was developed using RPG Maker 2003 but lacks many elements commonly associated with role-playing games, such as a traditional plot or battle system, with gameplay instead focusing on exploration of the dream world. You can remove the part about it lacking role-playing elements if it's unsourced. Maybe The game was developed using RPG Maker 2003, with gameplay being based on the exploration of the dream world. The sentence is pretty long anyway.

Done - Split up the sentence

Yume Nikki was first distributed as freeware for Windows through Kikiyama's website in June 2004, ... Nothing is ever mentioned in the body about the game being free or released for Windows. Also, the body and lead conflict here, as the lead says it was released on Kikiyama's website while the body says it was released on 2channel on the same date...

Done

The game has received critical praise for its surreal visual style and emphasis on open-ended exploration; its non-linearity led some critics to describe it as a precursor to walking simulators. Remove the semicolon (not necessary, but my preference) and use a less vague term than "non-linearity". I'm actually not sure how to word this myself. Perhaps Its nonlinear gameplay ...?

Done - I don't see how it was a vague term, but the replacement is fine

Its pixel art visual style and horror elements inspired numerous fangames and influenced later indie games. replace with Its graphics and horror elements inspired numerous fangames and indie games, such as Ao Oni, Ib, and Undertale

Done

The game has received various manga and light novel adaptations, as well as a 3D reboot called Yume Nikki: Dream Diary, also released in 2018. The body says that the game only received a manga and light novel adaptation, not "various" or numerous. I recommend paraphrasing the 3D reboot part as I felt that was shoehorned in awkwardly. Perhaps Yume Nikki: Dream Diary, a 3D reboot of Yume Nikki, was announced two weeks after the steam release of the game. It was released on February 23 in the same year.

Done - What a mess; I think/hope that wasn't my writing

Again, the same goes for the infobox. The note about the game being published on Kikiyama's website and the platform being Windows is unreflective of the article content.

The platform being Windows is implied by the fact it's on Steam, and a very uncontroversial statement to boot. Done - I removed the mentions of Kikiyama's website. I'm not sure but they might be a relic of when their site was used as a source in the article.

Gameplay

The player controls a girl named Madotsuki who lives alone in a one-room. The game begins inside her apartment, which the player is initially unable to leave. rephrase to The player controls a girl named Madotsuki who lives alone in a one-room apartment. The game begins with the player initially unable to leave.

Done - again weird, words must have gotten butchered somewhere along the way

Other objects and NPCs can send Madotsuki to different areas, but there is no way to encounter a game over. Maybe you can put the game over part as the last sentence of the section.

Done - I moved it in with the "has no plot, dialogue, combat" bit, where it makes sense

Development and release

They created the game using RPG Maker 2003, a computer program designed for making 2D role-playing games. You don't need to explain what RPG Maker 2003 is, or at least that extensively. The reader can just hover over to the wikilink to see what it is. Perhaps They created the game using the engine RPG Maker 2003

Done

Despite this, many elements often associated with role-playing games are absent, such as dialogue and combat. Again, this would be better in the "Gameplay" section.

Done - I removed this, but also it's already mentioned there.

Kikiyama first shared a build of the game on June 26, 2004, on the Japanese textboard 2channel, and they continued to update the game until 2007, stopping at version 0.10. rephrase to On June 26, 2004, Kikiyama first shared a build of the game on the Japanese textboard 2channel. They continued to update the game until 2007, stopping at version 0.10.

Done

Reception

She also attributed some of the game's popularity to the fact that its "dreamy" imagery invites speculation about its meaning. Remove "some of"

I don't see why this should be done. It was only one reason she gave, out of many contributing factors.

The gameplay and atmosphere were also positively received by critics, who identified the game's emphasis on exploration as a major appeal, ... Isn't this the same as Yume Nikki received generally positive reception from critics, particularly for its unique, surreal visual style and exploration-based gameplay? I highly suggest removing this sentence to prevent redundancy.

Done - good point; I instead changed the latter sentence

For the walking simulator part, maybe Some critics described Yume Nikki as an early example of a walking simulator

Done

McSwain and Zavarise agreed that the game's world was enjoyable to explore, with distinct and interesting locations, but both identified the lack of any guides or maps as a source of frustration, making it too easy for the player to get stuck. rephrase to McSwain and Zavarise agreed that the game's distinct and interesting locations were enjoyable to explore. They both criticized the lack of guides or maps as a source of frustration, making it too easy for the player to get stuck.

Done

Legacy

Due to the game's open-ended nature and the accessibility offered by the RPG Maker software, Yume Nikki has inspired the creation of a number of fangames, some of which have attempted to explore theories about the original game; notable examples include Yume 2kki (a collaborative project started by 2channel users) and .flow. Remove the semicolon (preference again), and replace "notable examples" to "Notable fangames". Remove the parenthesized note as it is unnecessary. Also wikilink the first instance of fangame anywhere in the article body.

Done - fangame is already wikilinked

Closing comments

Incredibly sorry for the long wait Bluecrystal004. Sometimes real life can be a real pain in the neck. I really hope you didn't mind waiting. Sparkl^talk 22:39, 27 November 2022 (UTC)'

I think that's all I have for this review. I was on the verge of failing this on original research and prose issues (and probably comprehensiveness?), but I decided to be patient and wait for further updates as you have waited for me to review this. Hope this doesn't bring you down! Although these issues might seem abundant, they're mostly small ones. Overall, I really enjoyed reading this article, as it is the most important RPG Maker game of all-time (personally my favourite is OneShot). Sparkl^talk 02:06, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I should have addressed all points. ~Bluecrystal004^{(talk · contribs)} 01:24, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Everything looks good now. I am very happy to say that this article is a

pass! (also, don't forget to nominate for WP:DYK if you want to) Sparkl^talk 18:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 01:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that rarely anything is known about the developer of Yume Nikki? Source: https://www.wired.com/story/yume-nikki-japanese-game-that-took-14-years-to-officially-come-out/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Oh My God, Charlie Darwin

Improved to Good Article status by Bluecrystal004 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 15:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC).

A more interesting alternative (sourced to the same WIRED article) can be:

ALT1: ... that the developer of Yume Nikki has been speculated to have died in the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake? Sparkl^talk 17:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Sparkl: Actually false information. The article states "The re-emergence of Yume Nikki has led to a confirmation from publisher Kadokawa Games that Kikiyama is, at least, alive, and involved in some capacity in the new developments in what has come to be called the Yume Nikki Project. But not much else is known." So, permission was gained to do the remake from Kadokawa Games, confirming the original creator is in fact alive. While it was speculated in the past, I don't think Wikipedia should spread demonstrably false rumors. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:03, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that is correct. I didn't intend for my suggestion to imply that the developer actually died. I thought it was the most interesting part of the article, but I also didn't want to confuse viewers (so I added "has been speculated"). But I respect and acknowledge if this suggestion was a bit confusing and not neutral. Sparkl^talk 01:10, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

What about something like this as an alternative? It makes it clear that it's a debunked rumor, so gets around any implication that he actually is dead. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that so little is known about the reclusive developer of Yume Nikki that publisher Kadokawa Games had to debunk rumors that he had died in the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake?

A full review of this nomination is still needed. Flibirigit (talk) 12:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I like ALT2. Good to go. BorgQueen (talk) 01:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)