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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:45, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

2010–2017 Toronto serial homicides

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  • ... that landscaper Bruce McArthur is alleged to have killed several men and hidden their dismembered bodies in garden planter boxes? Source: "Kanagaratnam's remains were among seven recovered from planters at a central Toronto property where McArthur, who is facing eight counts of first-degree murder, once worked."1
  • ALT1:... that the probe of the 2010–2017 Toronto serial homicides is expected to become the largest investigation conducted by the Toronto Police Service? Sources: "McArthur [...] is now the subject of what's poised to become the most ambitious homicide investigation in the city's history. [...] This will end up being, including in terms of the potential scenes, the largest Toronto has undertaken."2
  • ALT2:... that the deaths of Alloura Wells and Tess Richey, reported one day apart, renewed fears of a serial killer in Toronto's gay village? Sources: "Tess Richey [...] was found in an alley strangled to death in November. The next day, police confirmed that a body [...] had been identified as that of Alloura Wells [...] To address the uproar, the Toronto police organized at their headquarters an unprecedented media update [...] Chief Mark Saunders stated there was no indication at the time that there was a serial killer targeting the LGBTQ community."3 plus "As news of Richey's homicide broke, some in the community have taken safety into their own hands"4 and "While Saunders and his detectives dispelled rumours of a serial killer in the village, friends are still cancelling plans to go out. Residents tuck pepper spray into their bags and inform neighbours when they'll be home. Strangers are contacting the neighbourhood association, volunteering safe walks home."5.
  • Comment: Article may be moved. (update) Move request failed, still in violation of WP:CRIME, please hold DYK until resolved. (update) I believe issues are resolved. The first hook is "hookiest" but is perhaps too negative on an alleged perpetrator. ALT1 is so-so. I wrote two new related articles for ALT2 but I'm not so sure it's hooky either. I'm open to other alternatives and would appreciate any advice. – Reidgreg (talk) 00:30, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

5x expanded by Reidgreg (talk). Self-nominated at 17:16, 18 May 2018 (UTC).

  • Expanded more than 5 fold, with original text, 18 May; nominated the same day.
  • Not previously been on the main page.
  • Easily long enough.
  • No disputes; meets BLP; neutral; no copyvio.
  • No QPQ required.
  • ALT3 is not, IMHO, very hooky.
  • The original nom is negative about a living person, but in a neutral, non-derogatory, well sourced manner. (I note the nominator's comment regarding this.)
  • Both the original and ALT1 are short enough.
  • Both the original and ALT1 are well referenced.
  • The original is the hookier and I cannot think of any way to improve on it, so I am approving it as is. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:38, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Hooks like the approved ALT0 have not passed main page scrutiny because the victims' families could be pained by it. IMO ALT1 is the best idea. Pinging @Gog the Mild:. Yoninah (talk) 21:56, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
  • OK. That certainly rules out any variants of ALT2. I agree with the nominator that ALT1 could do with being hookier. Hmm. @Reidgreg:
  • ALT3 . . . that the 2010–2017 Toronto serial homicides are expected to cause the largest investigation ever conducted by the city's police? Thoughts? (I realise that the "ever" is redundant, but it, IMO, makes the phrase flow better.) Gog the Mild (talk) 22:17, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
  • I think ALT1 is more succinctly worded. Yoninah (talk) 22:43, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
  • When you put them side by side, ALT3 is 4 words shorter than ALT1 (-3 words at the beginning, +1 for ever, -2 for the and Service). I would use lower-case police in ALT3 if not using the full proper name, though it might be worth changing to the city's police to avoid repeating Toronto. It's not really a "fun fact" kind of subject, but I feel the updated content would be of interest to a lot of readers (or I hope so). – Reidgreg (talk) 00:31, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
  • @Reidgreg: You are allowed to change it yourself if you wish. I am assuming that ALT0 is not preferred? In which case how is ALT3 now? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
  • @Reidgreg: it's not a matter of counting words; the way ALT1 is written is simply sharper. In ALT3, "are expected to cause" is much less elegant than ALT1's "is expected to become". Yoninah (talk) 18:36, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah and Gog the Mild:Okay, I understand, that phrasing does present a small hurdle. And I believe they're all well within 200 characters so length isn't really an issue. To revisit ALT2, which didn't get much discussion, is mention of the two deaths (which happened 6+ months ago) likely to be vetoed? It doesn't mention any grisly details as was the issue with ALT0. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Yes, ALT2 works. I don't understand why you struck it, Gog the Mild, without reviewing it; I'm unstriking it. The two victims' articles were expanded on June 2, two weeks after the original nomination but before the DYK review started. I would IAR the newness issue, considering this is a new nominator, and review all 3 articles. Yoninah (talk) 17:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


@Yoninah and Reidgreg: "I don't understand why you struck it... without reviewing it". After you wrote "Hooks like the approved ALT0 have not passed main page scrutiny because the victims' families could be pained by it. IMO ALT1 is the best idea." above, I commented "That certainly rules out any variants of ALT2." Clearly I do not have a good grip on what will or will not pass main page scrutiny.

I will do a full DYK review on both Death of Alloura Wells and Murder of Tess Richey on this page, bar the 7 day requirement. Give me a little time. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@Gog the Mild: Two murders sparking fears of a serial killer in the gay community is a lot different than a killer hacking up victims and stuffing them into garden boxes.
If you'd like help, I could do one of the reviews. Yoninah (talk) 19:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah: I'm still not entirely sure that I see that, but the main thing is that if something similar comes up again I will know to call for a second opinion. Yes please; I am happy to do both, but I think that it would be good for me to see how you approach a review. This is only my fourth, so I still have a lot to learn. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
* Review of Death of Alloura Wells: Article created on June 2. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced. There is a bit of close paraphrasing which needs to be rewritten in your own words:
  • Source: Gray said when police received the missing person report, they realized there might be a connection to the body found in the ravine.
  • Article: When police received Wells's missing persons report they also realized there might be a connection to the body found in the ravine
    → Police also saw similarities between the missing persons report and the body found in the ravine
  • Source: The police were also criticized for not releasing information to the public about the body until recently.
  • Article: The police were also criticized for not releasing information to the public about the body.
    → Friends of Wells also blamed police for not publicizing information about her body earlier.
  • Source: a stretch of Bloor Street East, between the St. James Town neighbourhood and the Church and Wellesley corridor
  • Article: a stretch of Bloor Street East, between the St. James Town neighbourhood and the Church and Wellesley corridor
    → and along Bloor Street East, where Wells was often seen.
  • Still waiting on new hook wording. No QPQ needed for nominator with less than 5 DYK credits. Yoninah (talk) 21:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
  • NOTE: I added creation credits to the template for these 2 additional articles. Yoninah (talk) 21:03, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing this up and setting aside the time consideration. (I am also learning a lot.) Richey's death wasn't ruled a homicide until a couple days after her body was discovered, so I was going in the context of the reporting of their deaths, which is when the "uproar" began. There had been concerns of a serial killer already but the discovery of the deaths of these two missing persons brought a convergence of attention and media coverage that turned rumours of a serial killer into front-page news. I hoped the "one day apart" would give a sense of that. There may be a problem with "the discovery of" Alloura Wells's body, as it was discovered months before it was identified. I will get on the paraphrasing. – Reidgreg (talk) 21:21, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
  • @Reidgreg: OK, I see it's clearly spelled out in the Richey article that hers wasn't ruled a homicide at first, so we can continue with ALT2. Yoninah (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Review of Murder of Tess Richey:

@Reidgreg:

  • A couple of close paraphrasings which it may be best to change, see here and here.  Done
  • New on 2 June, see above.
  • More than long enough; no disputes; not a BLP, but meets BLP criteria; not previously been on the main page; neutral.
  • No QPQ required.
  • Well cited and referenced; hook ref is well covered. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:28, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
    I cleaned that up a bit, though Earwig is still using the same cache so I haven't seen the numbers come down. (A little longer than required: DYK only needs 1,500 characters, not 1,500 words.) – Reidgreg (talk) 22:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
  • I'd brought the WP:BRRR to an admin's attention when I found one of the editors had rollback permission. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:46, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
  • The protection tag has been removed and this is ready for promotion. Yoninah (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
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