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User talk:Reidgreg

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DYK for Made in Canada[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 1 July 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Made in Canada, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that poutine (example pictured) and back bacon on a bun were served while the Beaver was awarded to Made in Canada at the inaugural Canadian Comedy Awards? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Made in Canada), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:02, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Maple cookies from ByWard Market in Ottawa

@Mr. C.C., Bearcat, Miniapolis, Twofingered Typist, Gog the Mild, Canadian Paul, Valereee, Gerda Arendt, Yoninah, Coffeeandcrumbs, and Cwmhiraeth: Thank you for your help throughout the process of improving the above articles for this DYK. Please enjoy the wikicookies and have a great day! – Reidgreg (talk) 00:06, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Yum! Thanks! Yoninah (talk) 00:52, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I've been to the Byward Market. Great place. I should be thanking you for your help on the 1st Canadian Comedy Awards. Thanks though. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 01:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the great cookie, bur almost too pretty to eat it, - later. You have a wonderful way to celebrate. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! Now if I could just find my maple-infused beer! Happy Canada Day! Twofingered Typist (talk) 12:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the cookies! Glad it came together! --valereee (talk) 18:23, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Add it to WP:DYKSTATS!!! The 2 I reviewed made it, each individually, - I think it may qualify for the all-time-records if you add all five. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: The food articles were even higher; it far exceeded my expectations. It looks like it'll be somewhere around No. 20 on the all-time lead hook list. Stats here (Poutine normally gets 2k views a day so I have to average the views from the days before and after and subtract that from the total, to be fair.) Poutine gets 3/4 million views a year so I knew it'd get some hits, and I guess the others shared in that. I think the broadness of different subjects and the day it ran made for "the perfect storm" of click bait: foodie stuff, nostalgia, patriotism, humour. Not bad for my first lead hook, eh? – Reidgreg (talk) 12:16, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
No, excellent, but still YOU or someone who has time (so not me) has to add it to DYKSTATS ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Okay, it's listed at DYKSTATS. Total views were 67,475 and discounting for baseline views left 64,225. This made it the 14th most-viewed lead hook, 24th most-viewed for all hooks, the most-viewed hook with three or more articles, and the most-viewed Canada-related hook. (Rankings by time on the main page would be lower.) – Reidgreg (talk) 13:57, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
... and the second time Canada is mentioned at all on that page! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:26, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
One more stat: Poutine reached No. 2098 on the WP:5000 for 30 June – 6 July 2019 with 41,499 page views. (Peameal bacon was about 4,000 views shy of No. 5000.) – Reidgreg (talk) 14:00, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Franz Kafka was 296, - thank you for the link ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

A Barnstar!
The Silver Maple Leaf Award

Awarded for an outstanding 5 page DYK nomination that showcased high quality coverage of quintessential Canadian topics. Thanks for the wonderful contributions. Wugapodes [thɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 20:42, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

@Wugapodes: Much thanks! I've got it on the stats page now (some rankings, above) and it looks to be the most-viewed Canada-related DYK! Plus it's just fun stuff. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:47, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

IPv6 requests[edit]

Hi Reidgreg, thanks for removing the most recent IPv6 request. I'll probably remove the other two; please see [this SPI] and my comments on REQ talk. P.S., welcome back to the Big Chair. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 05:55, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

@Baffle gab1978: Thanks. That req was the first or second edit from that IP account, so I thought the best thing was to remove it quickly before a new copy editor took it for the drive. I'm never sure the best way to communicate with an IP, and feel better about the decision after hearing of your investigation. Thanks for your vigilance and for educating me a bit. – Reidgreg (talk) 10:08, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks; a second opinion is always welcome. Wish I'd spotted this earlier; the removed sigs made it obvious something was up. IMO, our members have enough to do without chasing around after socks of blocked users. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 18:47, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

A quick question[edit]

I'll try to keep this sort of thing to a minimum, but I have searched and can't find how to mark the text for non-breaking spaces so the code appears on screen correctly so an editor can read it. Any idea? Thanks! Twofingered Typist (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: No, please, ask me stuff! Let me feel useful!
Quick answer:   which produces:   – if that's what you're looking for.
I'm not 100% sure that I understand your question. Do you want to show an editor the code for a non-breaking space? I thought there were a few ways of doing it, but testing just now 'nowiki' doesn't seem to do it.
What I usually do is express the leading ampersand of &nbsp; as an html entity: &amp; so then for a nbsp it'd be &amp;nbsp; which produces: &nbsp; It's a bit old-school. With tags like <example> you can similar use &lt; (for less-than).
If you don't like html entities, there are short templates like {{&}} which produces &. However, when I test {{&}}amp; I get & – which indicates that the ampersand is resolving before the parser interprets wikitext. There's probably a way of doing it, but I'm not finding it right now.
Is that what you were looking for? It is, of course, impossible to search for these things. – Reidgreg (talk) 23:03, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Oh, of course you can also use the template {{nbsp}} which is an entirely different way of achieving a non-breaking space. There's a whole family of {{spaces}} templates. You can also use {{nowrap|text}}, where text is the text that you don't want to break. The templates cause a tiny bit more server load than the html, but are more portable. I find it easier to type the ampersand and semicolon than reaching for the scroll brace key with my pinky – one of many reasons I don't like programming languages that use scroll braces. – Reidgreg (talk) 23:32, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Sorry my question was vague. I wanted to show an editor whose work I was checking for the current drive the preferred format for expressing time. I came up with a workaround that would require them to go into edit mode with my note to see how it's done. Overnight it came to me there must be an article on Wikipedia about it - there is - and you are right: "code" before and after "&amp" plus ";nbsp;" produces &nbsp;. I've fixed my note to the editor. Thanks so much for your help. You are useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twofingered Typist (talkcontribs) 3 July 2019 (UTC)
I should have tried to get the 'quick' answer out quicker instead of being through. You're welcome. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:19, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Canada Day Dyks inquiry[edit]

Well done with the Canada Day DYKs/GAs! I am very impressed :) (I was going to give you a barnstar but couldn't decide lol). How'd you come up with the idea of having all 5 related to each other in a limited amount of time? --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:34, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

@MrLinkinPark333: I've been working on the Canadian Comedy Awards off-and-on for years. It's a tricky subject that received inconsistent media coverage over the years, so I kept setting it aside hoping that I'd find more sources at another time. I came up with the idea for the DYK six months ago, right after I'd submitted a similar April Fool's hook (three articles, one to 10th Canadian Comedy Awards). I wanted a couple months before nominating another "Beaver" hook, Canada Day fit right into that timeframe and I had a hook fact that threw together all this Canadiana (my original concept also fit Bob & Doug McKenzie in there). So I basically had six months to pull it together, though I got into an editing funk and procrastinated for a while. I specifically promoted the two GAs for this DYK, and was frantic asking editors for the reviews – this simply wouldn't have happened without those GA reviews.
As I find time between other commitments, I want to further expand the CCA article and finish with the 17 other yearly articles for the CCAs, currently drafts. It'd be nice if I could do a DYK to tie them together, but I haven't thought of anything yet.
I've already received a Silver Maple Leaf Award (above) and I'm due a 3/4 Million Award for the GA of poutine. I'm hoping to earn something for comedy or awards if/when I finish the series. Oooh, there's a bacon barnstar, that's pretty funny. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:14, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Wow. I didn't realize there was a long backstory to it :O Kudos! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:30, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

GOCE Editorial Comments—twice with ——[edit]


Would you mind having a look at my recent contributions and check that my talk page interactions over the past several days, twice with one ed. and once with another, don't overstep the bounds of what you consider appropriate? Thanks, Happy 4th - waiting to see footage of the baby T. balloon amidst all those tanks.Twofingered Typist (talk) 16:21, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: Somebody's crossing the Rubicon, eh? I greatly appreciate your jumping in to give some ce reviews at the beginning of the drive. It's invaluable for new editors to receive early feedback to guide them through the rest of the drive. You started by thanking the editors for their participation, which is great; always start with encouragement. And you likewise closed with a thanks and offer of help with questions. If you happen to notice something in their copy edit which you felt was particularly clever, it could be good to point that out, too.

Some of my approaches:

My approach in giving feedback varies on (1) how many edits the editor has on their account and (2) how much copy editing they've done. The one editor (I guess we're not naming names?) has about 400 edits on their account, so not a brand-new editor but probably not that familiar with the MOS. In comparison, the other has 10× as many edits and has participated in drives before, and I'd assume this second editor is more familiar with Wikipedia, GOCE and the MOS. So with the first editor I'd link them to Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/How to and give them a little brief on the peculiarities of Wikipedia's writing style. If I used the same approach with the second editor, they might find it patronizing or condescending. So with the second editor I'd dive into the reviewing with less preamble, and use more WP:SHOUTYACRONYMS that might intimidate a new editor.
I'd also expect more from the second editor and use a little more "tough love" in the review. (You can see I reviewed a couple other copyedits by the second editor above your article check.) With this editor, rather than correcting the article myself, I noted what I felt still needed fixing and left it to the editor to correct for drive credit. For a new editor, it can be illustrative to fix the articles so they can see the changes in the diffs, but when an editor is claiming a lot of articles I want them to fix them rather than having a coordinator do their work for them. I try to convey that they should try to be thorough, and as they learn to recognize style problems they'll spot them more quickly.
If I'm pointing out a lot of MOS minutia, I'll often preface it by saying that extremely few editors know all of the MOS and that articles don't have to perfectly adhere to the MOS, but that copy editors are expected to be more familiar with it and that consistent style makes it easier to read articles and helps avoid style-based edit warring. I may split feedback into things that should be done as part of a copy edit (grammar, spelling, basic MOS) and extra work (finer MOS points, alt text, interlanguage links, citation work, tagging for additional cleanup, etc). This can also serve to let them know what's expected for start-class backlog articles and what would be expected for GAN and FAC on the requests page.

Specific notes with your article checks:

I think I would have given links for some of the finer MOS points like MOS:SPELL09, MOS:NBSP, and MOS:BQ. The MOS gives more detail and examples which can be helpful for a copy editor's understanding. It's always good to encourage a copy editor to read the MOS, even if they only read a bit at a time. And you'll become more familiar with it, too, when you look up things for other editors.
Although I certainly don't write on talk pages the same way I do in articles, I try to set a good example with style, like using dashes as list separators (instead of hyphens).
Linking the publication in the citation is helpful, but maybe you should mention this as "extra work" outside the realm of copy editing, or that it's only expected at the FA level. (Before that, citations get moved around so what's first in the ref section can change.)
The example for |alt= text I don't quite agree with. The alt text shouldn't duplicate the caption, but should describe the image for someone who can't see it or can't see it clearly. Map showing the location of the standoff says what the image is but doesn't convey the encyclopedic content of the image, IMO. I might use "Map highlight indicating Marion township in northeastern Summit County, in southwestern Utah." This conveys the image content. It's a bit long, but more-or-less provides the same information as the image.
(Above, I used {{tq}} or {{talk quote}} which gives a distinct style to quoted sections. This can be useful when the quoted section includes other styles such as italics or double quotes.)
I tend to prefer the [[Manti, Utah|Manti]], Utah, link. MOS:LINK has examples of piping such but doesn't specifically endorse the practise. Do you know if there's a specific style guideline on this? If either style is valid then this shouldn't be changed arbitrarily. (If you aren't sure about a guideline, let me know and I'll inquire at MOS talk.)
I liked that you linked the diff in the second post for the first editor, though linked diffs might have also been helpful in the first post. New editors may not be too familiar with diffs or navigating the article history page. I think you did the right thing fixing up the GA copyedit; for a new copy editor I'd give them credit for it but encourage them to work on the backlog.

Overall, the interactions looked great. Hopefully your feedback is received well. In terms of improvement, I feel you could add a little more linking in your reviews and be a little clearer about what's expected/required at different levels of copy editing (and what's extra cleanup work in addition to copy editing). "I hope you find this information helpful. Please reply to me here if you have any questions." Happy 4th! – Reidgreg (talk) 20:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the useful feedback. I don't know if there's a style guideline on the linking question. I guess I just developed the habit after I kept coming across articles where the [[city,state|city]] [[state]] were both linked which is unnecessary. Twofingered Typist (talk) 11:27, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
@Twofingered Typist: from what I read on the MOS talk archives yesterday, I think there's a consensus that that would be over linking. I might make an exception if the state is more relevant to the subject being discussed, but then there would probably be a more-specific subject for a nearby link like [cinema in state] or some such. As for the piping, they agree that dab links should be piped ( [[The Beaver (film)]] → [[The Beaver (film)|''The Beaver'']] ). Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) § Disambiguation calls the , state part a disambiguation tag. I've asked at WT:MOS. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:53, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Question regarding GOCE July Drive[edit]

Hey Reidgreg, I saw that you checked one of the articles that I copy edited. I was just wondering, what is the criteria for *O or old articles? The article you checked originally had a Copy Edit template that was put there in January 2019, and it was also listed under the Category of Wikipedia articles needing copy edit from January 2019 before I removed the template. --Bobbychan193 (talk) 17:32, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bobbychan193: Hi! When I looked at this version of 3x3 basketball, one before your copy edit, the copy edit tag at the top says (June 2019). It appears to have been added on 26 June. The old months for the current drive are January and February 2019 (March might also be added if we finish Jan and Feb). The other three articles on your list count as old, and will receive the 50% bonus.
Good catch changing 1 → one (per MOS:SPELL09).
While you're reading this, what do you think of 3x3 vs 3×3. It's really subtle (the former has a lower-case x while the latter has a multiplication sign). I noticed that the article uses both styles for the subject. Ideally, this should be consistent throughout the article but I'm not sure which one is preferred. MOS:x notes that The unspaced letter x may be used in common terms such as 4x4. However, the article Four-wheel drive (to which 4x4 redirects) uses the multiplication sign in its lead. My thinking is that if it's simply a style issue, we should probably use × (times), but if it's treated as a proper noun with the x, then use the letter. Do you have any thoughts on this? (Yes, copy editing is often about such nit-picky things.) – Reidgreg (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
@Reidgreg: My bad. I could've sworn it was from January. I just looked at the edit history, and you're right.
To be honest, I'm not sure if I have the relevant Wikipedia experience to make a proper judgement on which one to use. I definitely agree that consistency is key. Feel free to make the final call on which one to use. --Bobbychan193 (talk) 18:49, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Glossary of basketball terms uses x (letter) so I guess I'll go with that. There are a lot of articles with the x in their titles and I didn't spot any with the × (times). – Reidgreg (talk) 19:26, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Rinse the Blood Off My Toga[edit]

Hi, here it is! I appreciate your adding any more detail from your offline sources. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 20:32, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

I'll take a look in a bit. I kind of wanted to tackle a bunch of W&S subjects when I had time to deal with them all at once, as the sources I gathered overlap different potential articles. I do remember that the original script for "Toga" is in a time capsule! – Reidgreg (talk) 21:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I wasn't sure if I should start this in a sandbox so you could add to it at your leisure. I don't plan to write any other W&S articles for now. Yoninah (talk) 08:07, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Okay, I went through my sources once and did an expansion. I feel like there's some that I missed, and I could try to research more on the dates for first performances and look for reviews... but maybe some other day. I've got to get back to my duties at the GOCE. Thanks again for your work on this. Oh, I put in some comments with some actors (some of whom have articles) but I'm not sure they should necessarily be included. – Reidgreg (talk) 17:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Wow, thanks very much! Do you think we should go for GA, or should I just go ahead with the DYK nomination? Personally, I find GA very stressful; the editors seem to nitpick about everything and when I do all I can and still can't provide all the changes, they say, "Never mind", and give it the icon. Yoninah (talk) 19:08, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah: it sounds like they wanted you to do stuff that wasn't actually part of the GA criteria. I wouldn't put them up for GAN for two reasons: (1) I'd like to do a more thorough treatment and some related articles, and make sure that information is in the most-relevant article, and (2) I owe 6 GA reviews at this point and really ought to get some in before I make another nomination. But I do think they're pretty close to GAs now; if you want to nominate them, I'll try to help out when review time comes along. – Reidgreg (talk) 20:06, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll go ahead and nominate it for DYK first. Yoninah (talk) 21:59, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Three-Quarter Million Award[edit]

The Three-Quarter Million Award
For your contributions to bring Poutine (estimated annual readership: 750,000) to Good Article status, I hereby present you the Three-Quarter Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! Bilorv (he/him) (talk) 23:39, 10 July 2019 (UTC)