Template:Did you know nominations/Koechlin family
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 17:36, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Koechlin family[edit]
- ... that Paul Koechlin, winner of the first automobile race ever, the 1895 Paris–Bordeaux–Paris race, was a second cousin to Maurice Koechlin, the structural engineer of the Eiffel Tower?
Created/expanded by Fram (talk). Self nom at 09:15, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
The article is new enough and long enough. I am uncomfortable with a hook link that jumps into a sub-heading for a short paragraph. I think the effect would be disconcerting to readers. Much more important, the article seriously lacks citations, falling far short of standards for a front-page article. Specifically, there are no citations in the article for the family tree, the core of the article, or for either Maurice or Paul. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:47, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
- Correction: there is a citation for Paul Koechlin but not one for Paul Koechlin. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:51, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have asked Fram (talk · contribs) to revisit this. Please hold for a few more days. Cunard (talk) 06:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see how this article is actually long enough, Maurice appears to have been one of the structural engineers on the Eiffel Tower not "the" structural engineer, and this all seems rather poorly sourced.842U (talk) 00:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
- The article on the Koechlin family is long enough, although normally the hook would include the article title, not a link to a sub-section. I doubt that there are copyright problems with the mini-biographies. Lack of sourcing is the problem. For example, without reliable sources I would doubt a statement that "Jules V. Koechlin was the first person to travel to the moon, which he found to be made entirely of Camembert". Aymatth2 (talk) 01:35, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have revisited the article somewhat, added a number of (mostly very reliable) sources to the family tree, and one to the body of the article. I'll add some more to the body of the article (mostly thesame as those used for the family tree, of course). I don't get the comment that the article wouldn't be long enough, it quite clearly surpasses the 1500 character limit and has actually over 5000 characters of real text (excluding family tree, section headers, image captions, sources, ...). Maurice Koechlin was the main structural engineer for the Eiffel Tower, see e.g. the article from the Deutsche Bauzeitung that I added: "Maurice Koechlin. Der eigentliche Erfinder des Eiffelturms" (in English: "The actual inventor of the Eiffel Tower"). Other books seem to indicate the same, that Koechlin was the inventor of and either the or one of the two structural engineers for the tower[1]"his chief engineer" (the other being Emile Nougier). If you prefer to have "one of the structural" in the hook instead, or something else, fine by me. Having the hook lead to the top of the article instead of going to a section is no problem either, I thought that in this case going to a specific section would be helpful.
- I can see why the article looked (and looks) undersourced, much of it is sourced in the notes, but without sufficient inline refs this isn't always clear of course. I don't think any really outrageous claims are included (I took care to inline source things like Paul's win of the first automobile race), but I'll see what I can do to improve the sourcing (with at least one good source per section, preferably). Whether that will be sufficient to include it in DYK is up to you, It's no big deal if this one doesn't end up on the main page, at least the discussion helps to improve the page somewhat. Fram (talk) 11:02, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
