|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Homicide template.
|WikiProject Crime||(Rated Template-class)|
|WikiProject Death||(Rated Template-class)|
- 1 Comments
- 2 Re: abortion
- 3 Homicide or Not?
- 4 Abortion
- 5 Felony murder
- 6 British/American spelling of 'honour'
- 7 how to fix it?
- 8 "Viricide"
- 9 Deicide
- 10 "list of -cides"
- 11 Criteria for inclusion in the template?
- 12 Depraved-heart murder
- 13 Familial homocide
- 14 Assassination
- 15 Why isn't war on this list?
- 16 Human sacrifice
This template is in the Deicide article, shouldn't it therefore be put in the bottom underneath the "other" heading? I'll go ahead and put it in there now (assuming its not there already and iv just been stupid) but feel free to revert if it's not appropriate. SGGH 18:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC) I am afraid that is my fault. I removed Deicide because it specifically refers to the killing of a god, and the homicide template should be about the killing of human beings, which other than Elvis, are not gods. I neglected to check Deicide for a homicide template. I am correcting my error.Mneumisi 19:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Several people have been adding abortion to the list, and it's kind of an inflammatory issue, which hasn't been discussed on the talk page yet. What do people think? Should it be on the template? I'm inclined to say "Definitely not" for scientific reasons, but that's colored by some of my pro-choice bias, I'm sure. :/ It's touchy. Anyway, it would be good if we could get a bit of consensus, to stop edit wars. The last addition of Abortion, by Piemanmoo, I reverted. I figure it's better to have abortion omitted from the list (whether or not it should be on there) than to have it on there if it's wrongly placed. Switchercat talkcont 02:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think abortion qualifies as homicide, but I am sympathetic to the argument that it does. If it is part of it, however, it must be under legal homicides, because it is legal (in the US at least and most other countries).Mneumisi 14:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Technically, it is homicide. The debate is really whether it is JUSTIFIABLE homicide. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:I was just about to post this! I agree 100%. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)That explains it. I was the one to post it in the first place! D'oh!
Homicide or Not?
How about adding a section called "Debatable Homicide" or "Disputed Homicide", and listing abortion under it? It is significant that the entire "Pro-Life" stance bases its position on the claim that people are alive and human from the moment of conception, and they argue that science is on their side just as much as the "Pro-Choice" stance does... maybe even more. -BaronGrackle 18:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC) I added abortion to the "Other types of homicide" part of the template, the same category that already included feticide. Considering abortion has a broader context than feticide, I thought it merited inclusion somewhere. If someone has an alternative suggestion, in line with my original posting above, or even along the lines of greatly cutting the template's content (which would knock off several of the items listed, not just abortion), I'm open to compromise. -BaronGrackle (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC) And someone has removed abortion from where it was. Fine. But it needs to be there somewhere, in some format. Thoughts? -BaronGrackle (talk) 02:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I kind of let this topic fade off because I was somewhat convinced that the inclusion of feticide did the issue enough justice. I don't know if NeevaN wanted to see something else on this topic as well, or if he was just accommodating people like me, but I'd be willing to compromise on having just feticide in with the "other types" category if the current format is undesired. -BaronGrackle (talk) 01:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC) The section has been emptied. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
British/American spelling of 'honour'
how to fix it?
The subjects under "Murder" look like written in single spaces. "Manslaugher", "Non-criminal homicide" and "Other types of homicide" look much better: double spaced. I don't know how to fix that. —Cesar Tort 12:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- I think I already fixed it (1.5em). It looks good in my PC. Does it look good in yours too? —Cesar Tort 05:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The link "Viricide", when clicking from the template, redirects to Gendercide (curiously, I don't see any hatnote "Redirected from Viricide"). If on the other hand it's clicked from other place, it's the article Viricide, killing viruses. What is wrong with this redirect from template? Besides, killing viruses hardly is "homicide". The link must be removed from template. —Cesar Tort 18:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oh! I see now why it redirected there! I saw in the code a sort of vandalism —:
- —and I removed the whole thing. Cesar Tort 04:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- It is a term used in Christianity to describe the killing of Jesus Christ. Non-Christians don't believe God was killed, true, but it is still an understanding held by many people. Compare it to regicide, when the people who do the killing don't believe the victim is really a legitimate king. -BaronGrackle (talk) 05:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- I see. It still sounds a little odd to me... Cesar Tort 06:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, if we ever decide to cut down the template to the most essential examples of homicide (I see we have avunculicide there now!), then deicide can probably be one of the links to go. As of now, anything with the word "cide" in it that relates to human-killing seems fair game. -BaronGrackle (talk) 16:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
"It is a term used in Christianity to describe the killing of Jesus Christ. Non-Christians don't believe God was killed, true, but it is still an understanding held by many people." Then why not add it to the disputed section? 22.214.171.124 (talk) 18:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
- Well, we had it that way, but the previous "disputed" section was a bit unclear. With abortion and feticide, the dispute was whether a person was being killed. With deicide, there is no dispute over whether a person is being killed; the dispute is whether the person is God or a god. If I were to declare myself king, and then someone kills me, my followers would call it regicide. People would dispute the name regicide, but they wouldn't dispute that I was killed. It doesn't seem to matter anyway, since a new format was implemented without deicide. I think that's fair; it's a fairly isolated event. -BaronGrackle (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
If we don't get rid of deicide, we should add tedicide, dollicide, etc for the killing of all imaginary beings. I will be deleting in two weeks unless there is a logical argument why not.RayTayMiht (talk) 21:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
This is why we should keep it. Jesus was a man, the Son of God, and also God (all at the same time). It has been scientifically proven that the Star of Bethlehem, signifying Jesus' birth, was a conjunction of planets lining up to look like one star. I think we can conclude from this that Jesus existed and we should keep Deicide on the list
Hey, and if you are also into mythology (I'm not really), various gods were killed by other gods. Some believe or have believed they existed. While I don't call this Deicide, this would be deicide (as I do not believe mythological gods to be deities).126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
"list of -cides"
Criteria for inclusion in the template?
I think depraved-heart murder (also known as depraved-indifference murder, malignant heart murder, and a few others) should be included. It is a legally recognized category of unintentional murder in the United States. Verkhovensky (talk) 03:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
There's quite a tempest going on at Talk:Assassination about whether "Targeted Killing" can be assassination because this template defines assassination as murder which is a crime, and targeted killing is more of an act of war, permissible under international law (although hotly debated). Does anybody here have ideas on what should be done? Thundermaker (talk) 21:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Why isn't war on this list?
Considering that guns are used frequently in wars (I think we know guns kill), 2000+ Americans have died as as the result of violence due to killing, can we not logically avoid the truth that killing an enemy in war is still killing a human being? We could put this either under noncriminal homicide or other.
I apologize if I have ruffled feathers, but the media censors the truth of war. Here are some quotes.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X. He may not have been talking about war but the message is the same.
“ It is a tribute to the humanity of ordinary people that horrible acts must be camouflaged in a thicket of deceptive words like “security,” “peace,” “freedom,” “democracy,” the “national interest” in order to justify them." - Howard Zinn
I believe that fear of attack or recognition of the truth, patriotism, censoring, and often lies have persuaded us to use euphemisms when referring to war. I would appreciate it greatly if acts of war was put on the template somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 01:15, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
- It has been added
I notice that "human sacrifice" is included in noth "non-criminal homicide" and "murder", yet "child sacrifice" is included only under "murder". As unpleasant as child/human sacrifice may be, it was usually legal in the cultures where it was practised, so "non-criminal homicide" seems more apt. In any case, child sacrifice is a subset of human sacrifice and should be listed in the same places. Simon Burchell (talk) 10:15, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Although it may have been legal in the cultures where it was practiced, it isn't legal anymore. But I do agree that they should be listed in the same place. Bwrs (talk) 07:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
- A crime, by definition, is illegal... Simon Burchell (talk) 20:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)