Does he have one blue eye and one yellow? What are your plans for him?The Dogfather 20:01, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I figured I'd throw her in a closet and take her out again when she's grown up and see whether she's any good. ;-) Yes, she has different-colored eyes, like her mama who is a stupendous agility dog. I hope that she will take after her mom (and her dad's a pretty darned good agility dog, too) and after my three preceding good-to-excellent agility dogs. I brought her home yesterday at just under 3 months and she's exhibiting classic eye behavior on my other dogs already. She has a great-grandmother or something who was a multiple herding champion--agility is expensive and time-consuming enough that I don't really want to get into herding, too. Elf | Talk 21:29, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Cuz 'er wuz a cutie-wutie little puppy-wuppy pwitty itty lil...[Quill shakes self, returns to coherent English-speaking being..]
Oh, that would just be impossible, now wouldn't it! :-) Did you ever figure out what you're going to do with *him*? Elf | Talk 00:12, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Lemme guess--that dog breeding photo would be a certain editor's BC puppy at the vet's? She's looking great, actually. Still haven't figured out what to do with Lil Buster; who's only 'eye' is the one he gives me when it's dinner time. In yet another hilarious episode, some school children apparently sneaked Buster onto the bus and like Mary's lamb he followed them to school one day...yes, I got a call.... Quill 09:00, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
sorry about the problems I was causing. I put the copyright info in the drop down and not in the body as well. Now hopefully all is good. Black arrow 05:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You asked about the photos I added. All of them were taken by me and all that I add in the future will be taken by me. So please know that Wikipedia can use them as per the licensing agreement I read and signed off (checked off) on. Thanks for letting me know about the request for photos. I have lots to share and will start with the Merchandise Mart in Chicago.
Hi - just wanted to say that the video works fine on my end .. perhaps you can try the mirror link at the bottom .. its a really cute video about dogs begging for something and I thought it'll fit in nice there ..
PS: this entry is a re-edit ... hope u reply soon
OK, I managed to view it but still don't have sound (I can imagine it, though). Still not sure whether it's an appropriate link for this article. Pondering... Elf | Talk 7 July 2005 20:55 (UTC)
Thanks .. it has sound on my end and that is the important part - the cute whimping sounds!!.. i dun know why the video is causing so much problems at your end, anyway it's your call - no fighting here - yr the admin - thx for responding to my query tho (Btw - i dun know how to respond to the thread so i just edited the whole thing and added my comments) (Persuasive Dogs)
If you sign up so that you have a log-in ID, you get links for each section and then you don't have to scroll through the whole page to edit it. Whether I'm admin has nothing to do with the decision on whether to include links. I'd say that my year and a half of experience on Wikipedia gives me some idea of what kind of links are most appropriate, but I'm not (and none of us ever will be) a definitive authority on anything. That said--I did finally get it to play sound (and then it quit halfway thru)--that's 3 browsers on 3 systems i've tried it on, so who knows what's the deal. So IMHO it's a kind of cute video of some dogs being encouraged to make cute noises but not a particularly educational piece of work, so I still think it doesn't belong here. If you disagree, you're welcome to bring up the topic on the dog article's talk/discussion page and see what other people think. I have no problem with that; I'll just repeat my comment here, there, and also see what other people think. :-) Elf | Talk 04:36, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I had a question about deleting links across large numbers of articles, but I deleted all of them manually. So, this is an FYI. Someone was trying to turn the dog breed wikipedia entries into a link farm for an advertising site. Trysha 7 July 2005 03:37 (UTC)
I had added a link to our site, www.petdreams.com, in the Crate Training and Dog Training pages, but they were removed. I apologize- I didn't realize that the commercial links would not be acceptable. I had added a link to our site...Can I add links to specific article/FAQ pages on our site instead of the homepage? Or are all links to any page on our site not allowed?
Our site has lots of free crate training tips, FAQs, articles, forums, etc. so I thought it would be a useful resource on those pages. Can I add links to specific article/FAQ pages on our site instead of the homepage? Or are all links to any page on our site not allowed?
Thank you!
I poked around on your site a little bit and every page starts with a large banner with the company name which is a bit of an advertisement ("Cratewear--because crates aren't just for training"), then a huge ad for the complete 3-piece set, with an obvious shopping cart on the right side and a list of links on the left including Testimnotials, Product Info, etc. all of which a user has to get through before getting to actual educational information. Even then, the useful info is laced with product testimonials and tips about buying cratewear as a reward for your dog, etc. That's not really an appropriate link to send people to from a public domain encyclopedia. Elf | Talk 7 July 2005 20:49 (UTC)
If you could, please delete the pictures I've already contributed to the site. I have a few dog pictures of my own that I would be glad to submit, but the ones I've already added were not my own. I didn't originally read the policy on pictures... now that I have, I kind of feel like and idiot. <_<
Thanks for noting my "comprises". Next target: people who use "amount" when they mean "number", and people who use "i.e." because they don't know the difference between that and "e.g."! Martpol 08:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I took Image:Lake Nipissing Sunset.JPG myself with my own digital camera (and the other one of the lake as well). How do I go back and change the file to "public domain?". However the dog ones I just stumbled across on the internet. Thanks Skeeter08865
Thanks for the advice. It worked! As far as the constructive advice regarding my user page- I am from New Jersey and we all talk like we're from The Sopranos. No I am kidding! Skeeter08865 18:14, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Elf, Breezier writing is what it's about, man! Come on, clear, concise prose and NPOV are one thing, but dull and humourless? Why have something as potentially good as Wikipedia when it has to be as blah and humourlessly dull as to not allow for nuances of the English language as "The Bum's Rush" or "to put a/the run on"?
Scholarliness is one thing, but dull humourlessness?
You WOULD have to spell correct that ;)
Puggles. Good god, WHY? Why, why, why??
I am tempted to create a new article called "Poo-noodles" for poodle poodle crosses...:P (They're the next big thing!)
Mel "MelSkunk" Smith 01:48, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
It seems puggle isnt our only problem, take a quick ganders at Sharpdale. Think it should recieve the same treatment and be thrown placed lovingly in the Dog hybrids and crossbreeds page? Tekana (O.o) Talk 18:33, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I've been bad, you probably already noticed, but I set Sharpdale as a redirect to the dog hybrids page without any real discussion on the talk page. The person added it the link back to the Shar Pei page with a note saying "(don't delete -- how do you think new hybrids gain popularity?)". Anyhow I didn't think it was notable enough to add a mention on the hybrid page itself, and I wonder if it should be deleted outright. - Trysha(talk) 18:36, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You nead to know more about the different types of Curs to call yourself a dog expert. They are all-Americans and deserve some respect. ANON
Did I call myself a "dog expert"? What did I say that was disrespectful about curs? Also note that there are several Curs that are specific breeds, not all-Americans; you can find that info on the web if you look. Elf | Talk 16:50, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
User:WritersCramp has added dog fighting links to dozens of dog related pages. In most cases these links are of minimal relevance. I reverted a few of the most egregious ones such as Dog breeding. He/She reverted back List of dog sports, asserting that dog fighting is indeed a sport. I argue otherwise on Talk:List of dog sports. I'd appreciate your input. (For what it is worth, check the revision history of User talk:WritersCramp.) Dsurber 14:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dsurber nobody likes a tattle-tail now :) Dog fighting is definitely a sport, although an ugly one. Boxing is also a sport ! Go figure. My question is why can't a link to List of dog fighting breeds under ==Also== be allowed on the same page when Category:Dog fighting breeds was used ? Cheers WritersCramp 01:49, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Various responses:
FYI, even if I hadn't gotten this note on my page, I've got every dog-related page that I've found on my watchlist. Just happens I was away from the 12-14th so am just now working my way through everything. Once I had a real life.
Boxing--ugh--I can't watch it. Yeah, go figure. Welcome to "civilization".
Re: lists vs categories: My rationale is that "dog fighting" is just one of many topics that might be relevant to a breed; the See Also sections could easily become link farms if one starts adding every dog-related topic that's possibly relevant to a breed (where does one stop? See also...dog agility? list of dog breeds? dog obedience? dog coat?). I see the See Also list as being particularly useful links that expand on topics directly related to that specific article. But list of fighting breeds doesn't have any info on it other than the fact that the breed is a fighting breed, which is already covered in the catg:fighting breeds. So it's just taking up space that could be better used.
A better approach might be to add a paragraph about the dog-fighting history of that particular breed that includes a link to dog fighting, something like (I'm making this up):
"The Foo Dog was probably used in dog fighting in the 16th and 17th century, but since then its primary use has been as a doorstop."
Just make it specific to the breed, not a generic one-liner that repeats in every breed.
FYI, normally I would respond your talk page but your user page offends me greatly each of the couple times I've been there and so I'm responding here. I am trying not to let that affect my attitude towards any of your edits, but be aware that anyone who sees your page may have the same reaction and not be able to separate your attitude about some topics from your edits on completely unrelated topics. It's about getting along with people. Something to consider.
Coming out of the closet are we...Your pic gives off a definite gay-vibe WritersCramp 20:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Someones gender preference, either way, should not be made an issue here on Wikipedia or anywhere for that matter. Shame on you Writerscramp. maltmomma 21:05, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
I'm guessing that WC is young and male. Clearly has a lot to learn, like: One can be offended by bigotry whether or not one is the object of the bigotry. Like: Going out of your way to offend people is not a good way to ensure that other people want to make *your* life easier. Not sure why he has a chip on his shoulder about this, but it's too bad, because he's contributing a good effort to a lot of dog articles. Elf | Talk 22:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dog fighting a "sport"? - Ridicules. Articles on dog fighting belong under “The shameful part of human history”. --Rgsd 13:03, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Elf; I very much appreciate your comments, but will need some time to reflect on this rather odd situation. My initial reaction is that the WP position on copyright is somewhat extreme and may, in the long run, deprive a good idea of graphic material. You guessed right, I will not allow others to profit at my expense, it’s already bad enough that governments think they have a right to force me into it with their taxes. --Rgsd 13:03, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Elf, I want to use your picture of San Jose Downtown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SanJoseDowntownIMG016elf_wb.jpg for a project about the history of micro-electronics in Germany. How can I handle it. Please contact me: mail@frintert.de Thx, Jan F*** (UTC)
I have emailed the following:
Thanks for your interest in my photo of downtown san jose. I've not been asked before about how to use only a photo without using the text of the entire article. You might start by reading this:
Can the same picture that's on the internet on numerous different websites be considered GFDL? Thanks. maltmomma 21:07, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Elf for the fast reply. Wikithanks for always nicely answering my dumb questions, I, maltmomma, award you a BIG thanks(KC)maltmomma 21:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome! You should be recognized more often for all of your help to Wikipedians. :-) maltmomma 18:21, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
hey, i am aware of the wiki policy on spelling. I have never changed any of the american spelling to brittish. I simply added the FCI breed number to the breed table. Kim 18:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No problem whatsoever :) Everones entitled to make a mistake now and again.. But be warned, next time you will be recieving the 50 lashes! Tekana 10:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A few of the paragraphs in the history section of the article looked like they were copied verbatim from the referenced webpage. I just took them out, so if you want to include them back in you can just revert. --Barista | a/k/a マイケル | T/C 01:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Quite simply I think the policy is wrong. It is clearly a pov and as such is unjustifiable. See Talk:English Shepherd. This policy smacks of tyranny of the majority. Dsurber 00:21, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The point that I tried to make on the Talk:English Shepherd page was that there is no point bringing this up in a general dog forum. The show/pet dog people who are the vast majority, simply do not understand the concerns of the small minority of people who are devoted to working dogs. We always loose in that forum. I stand by my statement that the blanket policy is pov and I think the NPOV policy should always trump any more specific policy. Just my not so humble and more than slightly bitter opinion. Dsurber 01:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't it scary? Has been written up (and photographed) in the papers lately, too. Makes you want to rush right out and get one-- Elf | Talk 06:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The two pictures left here by User:Ntrilok, the and File:Dolly1.JPG, are okay to use. They are surely the work of (user) Neil Trilokekar in Canada, who happens to be a huge resource on Indian greyhounds. I believe both dogs are his. I made changes to the copyright tags and source information on both pictures. If you need to contact me, please leave message at no:Brukerdiskusjon:Tbjornstad
This guy created a page for his dog, Cotton, who died. It ended-up on VfD, so I userfied the content. His message on VfD on 1 Septermber indicated that he wanted to keep the article so he could write more about dog diseases and "what to look for".
I'm still a little green, I was thinking you're a helpful person, maybe you can help robfdavis?
Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. The links are very helpful in helping me understand what happened to him. Good suggestion to put the info on my own page. I appreciate it. Take care. --Robfdavis1971 18:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I am? :D ohh, can I have that in writing? Thanks a lot elf, just a few words like that do go a long way. Plus its a great ego boost, everyone in wikipedia will hear about this *evil grin* Tekana | Talk 20:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No...I don't have it...that's a user making a statement I just don't get. Can you please take a look at the recent history of Australian Bulldog when you have a chance? (I've been away, but I'm back) How's the puppy?? Quill 07:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding this enigmatic fellow... WritersCramp has been busy. He's initiated reversion wars on nearly every page he's touched, he's insulted vast numbers of editors, his talk page edit history is full of page-blanking by him (he refers to any comments there as "homo spam"), he seems to take the 3RR as a personal challenge, and the link spam that he's been spewing on Bully Kutta is ... well, minor compared to everything else. Is blocking completely out of the question? -Harmil 03:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
He was banned for 24 hours. We'll see what happens. Perhaps he'll figure out that this is not a workable plan, or perhaps this is his first step on the way to a permanent ban... *shrug*. Thanks for your feedback, though! -Harmil 09:25, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, let's see - this guy really is busy User:Endurance, User:LaLa, User:LaLa1, User:WritersCramp, User:Envelope, User:Yummy123, and User:SeanEvans. Now I think he's made a new account User:PigShit. There is such an obvious pattern of behavior. Going through his past edits he was doing the same things with architecture/nazi architecture and canadian history/wars in canada that he has done with dogs/dog fighting. I am beginning to wonder if this is someone's psychology or sociology project. Oh well. It's *almost* amusing to watch. - Trysha(talk) 22:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I am a Yosemite Indian. Most people believe that Yosemite Indians were Miwoks, but the majority of the Yosemite Indians were actually Paiute.
If you read the "Discussion" I have added the proof where Bunnell writes that Chief Tenaya, himself, stated that Tenaya's father was from a total different tribe of Indians then any in the surrounding area. In other words he was not Miwok, Paiute, Washo, Maidu, or Yokut.
So as a Yosemite Indian who knowns our peoples real background it should be designated as "Native American" because the Ahwahnechees were a totally seperate tribe of Indians.
The problem with the brochures that were done by the Yosemite Park service are actually wrong. The person who has been in charge of the Yosemite Musuem, Indian research, and Yosemite library was married to Miwok women and has a son with her. He has been in charge of that department for 30 years and we believe that his research is biased towards the Miwok point of view instead of using the original written accounts.
You can see the Yosemite Indians discussion concerning that persons involement in the missinformation that is being used by the Yosemite Park Service[1]
Howdy! Is there an image tag that lets me let Wikipedia use the image, but says that it is not for anyone else? WikiDon 06:13, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it was me. Thanks! for "userpage-image" WikiDon 00:01, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I doubt I will be as active soon though; I have just found out that I'm now a college student! My course starts sometime next week *squeal* (heh, sorry bout that, just so excited Im telling everone who I can force to listen)
Should be on a bit in the evening on most days, soon i'll have your to-do list as dry as a bucket of sand! Muahaha! I plan on keeping you on your toes, so keep a look out for anything else that needs to be done! Toodles Tekana (O.o) Talk 15:39, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A new user user:Snufkin, has invited himself to change the pomeranian page into a disambig under the terms of: "Pomeranian moved to Pomeranian (breed): "Pomeranian" refers also to the the Pomeranian language. By all respect, the main article on "Pomeranian" should rather deal with people rather than with dogs."
I'm finding his changes both unjust and pov, but im still a noob when it comes to changes like this and I dont wish for it to escalate into a revert war, so i was hoping on some of your more expert advice on the matter! Thanks, and sorry for being a giant pain in the ol' rear end! Tekana (O.o) Talk 11:37, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
okay, Ta for clearing it up. Tekana (O.o) Talk 18:08, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the heads up, but it seems our old friend hasnt really learnt any lesson. Theres a new user in town and he shares the same dog-fighting fixation as the others User:Elf-Masher. It seems he has never heard of subtlety either. Tekana (O.o) Talk 08:27, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, just a heads up that User:Elf-Masher insists on removing merge and cleanup notices from his History of dog fighting article - you might like to monitor the situation. Fawcett5 11:46, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Elf, I have now left a notice on User:Elf-Masher's page that if he makes anymore threats or personal attacks that the account will be blocked. Please let me know if something happens elsewhere that I miss. Fawcett5 02:57, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Quote from Elf: "wp tries to leave thumbs at default size so size not forced unless some overwhelming reason not to--not here"
I suspect that you're (mis)interpreting the Wikipedia rules to fit your own preferences. Wikipedia's official image use policy says, "In articles, if you wish to have a photo beside the text, you should generally use the "thumbnail" option available in the "Image markup", or approximately 200-250 pixels of width if you're doing it manually."
So according to these official guidelines, the 250-pixel width I specified was perfectly within recommended size range. The policy says absolutely nothing about "overwhelming reason not to," as you state.
You just can't make up or change the rules to suit your fancy whenever you want? Changing and modifiying posts that are perfectly within all stated guidelines to suit your personal whims, and then misquoting the rules to justify the vandalism is in itself a violation of Wikipedia policy.
After a couple of months with Wikipedia, I've had it; this is the last straw. I'm done, finished and out of here for good, and so is the photo.
Hi Elf. I've nominated Image:UserElf.jpg for deletion at WP:IFD. If you want it kept, could you please license it under the GFDL? Thanks, dbenbenn | talk 14:26, 10 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Elf,
I was looking to cleanup 301 redirects. I noticed that for Airedale Terrier the FCI nomenclature
points to the google cache. The googe cache is not valid anymore.
The link would really have to be to http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/007gb2003_en.doc, the standard for the specific breed, arrived at by going to the link that you just provided and clicking EN for the Airedale Terrier. The reason the caches were used was that they brought up the breed standards in HTML rather than as Word docs. And there are a ton of dog breed pages that do this.Elf | Talk 00:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
"I'd like to put back the red that you removed, however, because it shows a type other than the long-haired, thick-coated, flop-eared aussie."
If you want to, you certainly can, however, the short-coated, upright ear thing is a major problem - it's not something bred for in either working OR conformation lines and its not very functional to the breed to promote bad versions of the Aussie. The photos I posted ARE of typical working lines, and the red merle, my bitch, has about as high an ear as any standard can allow.
"There are plenty of purebred aussies (akc and/or asca registered) that have longer muzzles, longer legs, shorter coats, and more upright ears. Most are from working lines, not show lines. I know that you took out that distinction, but I think it's important to show that there are large variations in the breed and that doesn't make them any less Aussies."
I took out your distinction because it was kind of inaccurate. I appreciate you wanting highlight the separate strains, as the show and working lines are TOTALLY different, but I think it would take a lot more care to do it, considering this is an encyclopedia entry that reaches a broader audience and I just didn't want to see misinformation.
If I get time I'll think about what to say instead, but large variations in the breed are cool - dogs that are completely atypical are not good representatives. I would venture to say that aside from the blue merle you posted, the other dogs are all not at all what I would think of when I think of conformation line Aussie.
Great job formatting, btw. I like your version better.
Hi Elf, I'm back - at least for now :) It's probably a bit late to say so, but I don't recall any conversation on Bulldog/English Bulldog (Although I do on Otto/Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, maybe that was the one you were thinking of?). IIRC, the Olde English Bulldogge is a different breed from the Bulldog/English Bulldog - an attempt to take the breed back to the older formation... more of a developing breed than an established one as I understand it (or a cross-breed if you are less charitable ;)
Thanks for the info on the moved page and for adding the spreadsheet to the wikiproject pages - that's great.
I'ts going to take me a while to get caught up, and I need to concentrate on arbitration and foundation mail - but see you around :) -- sannse(talk) 09:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
hi, I saw your picture Image:BostonTerrierBrindleStand w.jpg on another site [3] and they have seemingly appropriated it as their own, just wondering if that was what it seemed or hopefully something more innocuous. - cohesion★talk 00:48, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad to hear that my work here is appreciated :) But yeah, too much life, dogs, and work keeping from doing a lot of the more fun contributions.
I've got a stack of dog books sitting on my desk, and a partially written article on the Basset artesian normand i've been meaning to post for a while.
One thing, I cannot say that I'd agree with the decision of letting this "dog trainer experts" web site stay as an external link anywhere. The most I'd suggest would be one link at Dog training and that bothers me a bit.
I mean, his stated purpose is to use wikipedia to make his site more popular. (and to improve wikipedia after more people have sent information to his site??).
That's against the External links guidelines - it doesn't' have to be commercial to not be allowed. I don't see anything especially new or novel on his site (yet) to make it acceptable under "what should be linked to number 5" - and it's explicitly disallowed under "what should not be linked to" number 2 (self promotion). I've looked over a few of these articles and the dog whistle article is one of the few that mentions anything different than what can be inferred from information here. It also goes against wikipedia is not a link farm.
I don't mean to condemn him - he's being a nice guy and is trying to play within the rules - unlike others who have tried this in the past (the most memorable one was the woman who copied a dog training book from gutenberg removed all citiations, copyright, and references to the author, and then tried to link it everywhere here).
I think that I'd be really upset if we had a link to his site from every single dog article (as he seems to want to do [4][5][6][7], etc..). One site doesn't merit that amount of linking.
I'll say that he does have a good idea to make a popular web site, So, by linking to his site (which is soliciting dog pictures and training info) to wikipedia, he's linking to a demographic that is more likely to provide him with information to make his site grow. And he's found a topic that people often have questions about - I've seen it time and time again at our dog training club, people come in having trouble training their dog and they think that they need some breed specific book or method so that they can train the dog when the real problem is that they simply haven't been consistent with training or simply don't understand how to train a dog at all.
I'd vote unlink them all, and once his site is done - if it becomes regarded as reputable dog training site after a while, then he should come back and consider contributing things from his site and referencing his site as a source. Right now, all we know about the info is that people emailed it to him. Is it verifiable? Besides a site shouldn't need links from wikipedia in order to make it popular.
Heya, :) I moved the converstation to the dog project talk page. I think I got it all. I left out the discussion from gator and his doxie. - Trysha(talk) 21:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Seems that User:CHIMES is advertising a pet based wiki on people's user talk pages. I warned the user and rv'ed your talk page :) What fun. - Trysha(talk) 21:33, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
List of dog breeds has the dog project's preferred name for this breed (its article title) as Istarski Ostrodlaki Gonic. You're right, there's no article. Would you like to create one? :-) Elf | Talk 00:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If I knew enough to write one myself, I wouldn't have asked ;)
I want it because we used to have one (we got her as a stray), but apparently the breed is suffecently rare that the vet couldn't tell us what she was. Raul654 00:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
She was a stray & the vet didn't know what she was--(a) how'd you figure out that's what she was, and (b) really what are the odds of an extremely rare breed wandering loose in some random place? Just curious-- Elf | Talk 00:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
One day a relative of mine was looking through a book of dog breeds and was like "Oh my god, that dog is the spitting image of Tasha!". The likeness was uncanny. Pictures here and here - both of those dogs are almost identical to her, from the texture of the hair down to the patch of brown on the ears and side of the head. As to the odds - I wouldn't know. She wandered into our back yard, we put an add in the paper, and no one claimed her. She had been recently spayed, so someone had to have taken care of her before we did. Raul654 00:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
After searching through some old photo albums, I only found two adaequate pictures, and evne those are less-than-stellar. I uploaded them to commons here and hereRaul654 01:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't have any sources or anything for saying that training a dog to attack people is illegal, but it seems like it is. If a dog attacks a person, the owner of the dog can have files charged against them, so... I dunno. If you think that line should be taken out, go right ahead. Lachatdelarue(talk) 00:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to be of help -- I'm not certain if there will ever be a sure resolution, but I think we're at least getting closer to consensus. Its just been quite nice to have a stable page :) .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 02:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Elf. It's early days, but I think this is a real change :) It's amazing what a difference the right help can make. I'm glad it worked out for you back then too. Best -- sannse(talk) 15:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I was wondering if you'd mind a little readjusting to your article on toasts. I'd like to seperate the anecdotal parts from the definititory, and add a section on toasts in other languages.--Josh Rocchio 15:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Shiloh Shepherd Dog Talk Page (re: Content #6.1 "Support All Points"")[edit]
Hi Elf,
I have posted a question to you under your entry in this section of the Shiloh Shepherd Talk Page. If you get a chance, would you mind responding below my question on the Shiloh Shepherd Dog Talk page, since a couple other contributors also asked me to inquire and I'd rather they see a response directly from you rather than indirectly from me?
Thank you very much.
69.173.135.114 21:13, 29 December 2005 (UTC)Miles D.[reply]
It deals with all the optional fields properly. If you want to play around with the examples and let me know what you think, that'd be great.
I've asked at the village pump for technical review by some template experts - if i've done the right thing.
This is a work in progress, i'm not 100% happy with it - i'd like the classification stuff to go away if none are specified, but there's a hack in place to
deal with that.
Anyhow, but if you have any suggestions or comments - let me know :)
I'm going to post this to the dog project pages soon, and if people like it - i'll write a semi-manual bot to do the breed table replacements (after getting approval of course) :)
BLRERG. it was a typo - IIRC that breed table was all wacky and I had to put a bunch in manually. In this case, it was "ackstd" instead of "akcstd". Oops. - Trysha(talk) 23:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for updating my addition to the Jack Russell Terrier article. You made the new text fit in a lot better than I ever could.
I found the article while looking for solice after I loosing my Jack Russel to old age. I enjoyed the article but was struck by how it neglected to mension how Jacks make the perfect pet and seemed to concentrate more on the "working" side of the charecter.
It goes without saying the article is much improved with this addition, thank you again for your help.
Just wanted to let you know that I think you did a great job cleaning up the article I wrote, which now, in comparison, was clearly a first draft. :-) Thanks. Elf | Talk 05:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This message is to inform you about a new group whose aim is to try and answer Wikipedians' questions. The group is based here, and is so far nameless. If you can offer any help by improving the pages or by answering any questions, then you are very welcome to do so. You are also welcome to raise any questions.
If you know of anyone who would either like to know about this or could help us, then please tell them. Thank you. The Neokid 17:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This group is supposed to answer questions only about Wikipedia and it is supposed to feel more friendly, and help the community by making them feel in a nicer and less alien community. Basically.
That is a complete surprise. Thank you for the for the nomination, I will happily accept. Not sure that I'll get it, but why not try. - Trysha(talk) 02:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be possible for you to edit Template:welcome to include the HHG? You have contacted us before while the page was still on User:The_Neokid. I am not able to edit it as I do not have administrative privileges.
Thanks for extra stuff on that. I still find it shocking we didn't have an article about such an important topic until 2006 ;) Morwen - Talk 15:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Technically, the CGC is a certificate, not an AKC title, though all of us add the distinction after the dog's name. The Dogfather 17:51, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that the copyright notice didn't apply to the photo. The image seems to be in the public domain. Neverthelless I assert that its use is eligible for fairuse. --- Responses to Chazz's talk page. Signed by Chazz @ 22:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I found a few sites on the net that had 'em - this site has some good pictures of a basset jumping through a ring and on the a frame. Looks amusing - but yeah, that was another reason I was thinking of doing agility with Dora is that she is a small energetic basset - 45 pounds [8], and sometimes gets incredible bursts of energy, she'll run for hours. We let her out into the yard and she does laps around the house at break neck speed.
Sadly, I don't think that I could do this with her because she has "man phobia". For some unknown reason she is terrified of any man. I've tried many tricks to cure her, the most recent one I have been doing is giving any guy who comes over some treats for her - so far that has only seemed to make her accept the individual, not men in general.
Actually, I had made major progress for a while and I decided to test it by walking her in public - As luck would have it some guys came out of a bar when we were there. They drunkenly lunged at her screaming "awww a basset" and she actually slipped her collar. They decided to "help" by chasing her down. The guys actually yelled at me for telling them to "stop helping", after they chased her around yelling at her for 15 minutes, when they gave up - she came when called. GRRR. That did not help at all. Oh well :-/ (stream of consiousness) Trysha(talk) 21:07, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds; it's a well-established project with a lot of activity and several experienced users active or semiactive. Currently we're converting all of the breed info tables to an easier-to-read (we hope) and more consistent format. You can read the project page and its discussion page and its subpages (particularly the To-Do list subpage) and their discussion pages, and also probably Talk:List of dog breeds, and you'll start to get an idea of what's going on and what has gone on over the last 3 or 4 years.
According to Category:Dog breeds, we have 322 dog breed articles so far (although a lot are pretty sparse, as indicated in the To-Do list, or even stubs--see Category:Dog stubs). The List of dog breeds article lists about 160 more than that. Our source spreadsheet at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Breed source list lists 518 breeds; there's a very large overlap with what we've already got but not complete. So I'd guess there are well over 600 breeds of dogs in the world.
You can also start looking at Category:Dogs--all of the pages that you can get to from there and its subcategories are loosely associated with and often monitored by people in the dog breeds project. You can get an idea of the level of activity and who's doing what by going to any of those category pages and clicking the "Related changes" link on the left of your page; this shows all edits by anyone on any of the articles in that category within a certain amount of time.
Good luck. Have fun. Ask if you have questions. Elf | Talk 22:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wellllllll I'm done :) - except for poodle and maybe some others got accidentally missed.
You are in the bad part of checking. A-C had quite a few mistakes, I'm sorry to about that - Things get a lot nicer once you get into the later Cs or Ds, there are no more missed "FOOstd = ?" lines and such.
Everything I did today (which is most of of the breeds) I double-checked, in a similar fashion to what you were doing although it was probably much more cursory (converting is a semi manual process) and commented on if something was missing.
Some articles had some semi-useless notes, and I left them out in many cases -
Anyhow, I didn't spend too long checking, but maybe something was missed - basically I checked the number of kennel clubs of old vs. new, and made sure that they matched. If you want to double check them - i'd suggest starting with Y and go backwards, I'll pick up wherever you left off with the early ones, just tell me which one. :) - Trysha(talk) 00:37, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah, I agree that sometimes the canine could refer specifically to dogs, but considering the two choices I assumed canidae made the most sense. After you added the other possible meaning (dog), then I realized sometimes that would be better a better article to link to. Hmmm... some articles though the distinction is difficult, and the canidae article does say the family is referred to commonly as "canine". So, I am not exactly sure in every case which article would be better. Well, let me know if there is anything I can help with. Since there is obviously a difference between canine tooth (which is in my field of expertise) and canidae, my main goal was to make sure all dental related articles referred to canine tooth. The other articles just caught my eye, and I figured they certainly were not referring to the tooth. Hopefully, those articles which refer specifically to dogs will be easy to distinguish and fix. - Dozenisttalk 18:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, that is a great picture of a canine on a dog. It is a wonderful addition to wikipedia's articles on teeth!! - Dozenisttalk 18:18, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support and the editing tips. I am planning on going through all the existing dog disease articles and updating information and adding images. I've been taking digital photos at work for about a year, and I always hoped I would find a use for them. I will also write new articles for any diseases I am familiar with. I am sorry to hear about your dog that died of hemangiosarcoma. It's a terrible disease, and I have yet to have a case live longer than 2 months. One other thing. I'd like to move the diseases and ailments section of dog health to the category: dog health (or vice versa). Each list has things not on the other list. Please let me know what you think.
--Joelmills 05:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that all made sense. So I agree that it might me a good idea to split off the list at the bottom of dog health and make a list of dog diseases. But first, I will go through each link on the list and update it and make sure it ends up on the dog health category. By my count there were 40 diseases that were on dog health but not in the category. So that will take at least a few weeks, and then we can talk about creating the list. By the way, I appreciate all the comments. It makes me feel like I'm really helping out.
--Joelmills 21:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am definitely planning on checking the breed related diseases section (assuming there is one) for each breed and adding anything appropriate. --Joelmills 22:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is the general consensus here to capitalize dog breeds? If it is I'll certainly go along with it. I have, however, on one article, run across German Shepherd Dog, but I think German Shepherd (or shepherd) dog would be more appropriate. It's a trivial point, but I just want to be on the same page as everyone else. --Joelmills 05:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I just have a quick question for you. I'd like to add some info on glaucoma in dogs. The link from dog health goes to an article with only info on human glaucoma. I could either add the pertinent dog info there, or I could (and probably should) start a new article. So I would change the link on dog health and any breed articles to glaucoma in dogs, and possibly put a link on the glaucoma article to the new article. And eventually I would do the same thing for glaucoma in cats. It's a big enough subject to need a new page, because the characteristics and treatment are somewhat different. Please let me know what you think. --Joelmills 00:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Difficult to retrace every webpage I looked at, if there is a particular dog you are concerned about, please feel free to google the breed name and the word "badger" to get some hits. I think the Bull-Terrier and Jack Russell Terrier and Fox Terrier might qualify for the category, but this would entail more research time.
Some articles off the top of my head that mention Badger-baiting dog breeds are:
:Glens, Wheatens, Kerry Blues, and other large terriers were used in Ireland as Strong dogs that had to locate and engage or extract their quarry. One of their main functions might have been as a draw dog, to pull the quarry from the earth. In the past, Strong dogs in Ireland competed in working trials for gameness which involved contact with a badger and possibly drawing it from a tunnel.
Please note the admission to FSS of AKC and recognition by Continental Kennel Club, including standards of Rafeiro do Alentejo, just added. Hope you accept that RAFEIRO DO ALENTEJO are recognized by major Kennel Clubs!
Sincerely, Georgepedia
It appears that someone deleted the picture of Jake that we use all over the dog project out of process - seems that it got used it as part of a hoax page, and the image was mistakenly "cleaned up" along with the rest of the hoax. I've restored the image using one of those many wikipedia mirror sites. I hope i got all the information back correctly, you should check it out to make sure! - Trysha(talk) 00:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hot Diggedy! This is a lot of dogs.... (but really about blood sport.[edit]
Was looking at blood sport and appreciating your cleanup when I noticed you weren't sure what I meant when I said (rather cryptically) that I had rearranged the terms chronologically. That just means in the order in which they were used. The phrase for animal combat came before the phrase among blood fetishists, which came before the film, which came before the book of that title. Frequently when a term evolves and morphs and expands over time, arranging things like this clarifies the logic of this change: the term hare came before harrier (dog) before the adjective "harried". That's all! No reply necessary to Rorybowman 03:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Elf, would you please keep an eye on this editor User talk:Batzarro. He is 18 years old and beginning to edit various dog breeds. The editors contributions are quite Point-Of-View without citations and I have found some errors. The Editor advises that he has his own theories and should be allowed to add to them to articles. I disagree. WritersCramp 16:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Elf thanks for your help in the animal training article, and especially pointing out the dog training main article and moving relevant links over. I'll include only minimal dog training information, and retain your point over to the dog training article.
The text for animal training itself is still very stub-like, and I'll continue filling it with more content. Unlike for dogs, as there is not a separate dolphin training article, I may start more text there. The key part I might need help on is contrasting different training philosophies, or even historically-ingrained differences in the training in various contexts, e.g. zoos vs. dolphinariums.
Also in wikipedia, addressing redundant information is still a new task for me, and I might ask your advice in the very messy overlap between animal language and Great Ape language? The first article will be seriously edited, but even after that, the overlap with the second article is quite large.Santaduck 20:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am an avid dog lover but The neo Nazi Writer cramp may ve added doggy stuff right bub?
Anyway,Wots it 4 u if I edit stuff regerding ME?
Batzarro 16:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
other than the Dogo argentino noone absoltely noone can pinpoint the histry of any other molosser breed.
The bulldog and mastiff are no exceptions.
Much of the history is based on point of view and my edits are my point of view which I gathered from moloss.com,So I hope you find my edits useful.
Dogfighting in Pakistan is illegal but usually takes place in clandestine rural area s which are ruled by local chiefs and police have little contact as such.
As a result,Dogfighting is even broadcasted on local channels.
Pakistan law is unable to fight dogfighting although bearbaiting has been reduced but still continues.
Batzarro 16:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Batzarro, I notice you added to the article dog fighting that Pakistan broadcasts a TV version of dog fighting. Would you please provide a citation for your statement that can be verified. Your statement does not reconcile with dog fighting being illegal and the law being enforced in Pakistan. I am aware that you changed the Bully Kutta article from dog fighting being illegal in Pakistan to legal, which was incorect. Please be careful using [9] for your references, although a good start this website is quite Point-Of-View and out-of-date with factual errors. With respect BB BionicBoner 21:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've put strikethrough on the preceding item because my talk page is not the place for this discussion. Elf | Talk 23:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter anyhow - that account has been perma-blocked as a sockpuppet of WC. - Trysha(talk) 02:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the new image of a dobermann was more in focus but was under exposed (too dark) (compared to being out of focus and over exposed for the last one). I will fix the exposure problems and re-upload. Do you think it could be set as the image if this was fixed?-Localzuk(talk) 17:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The photo is definately not blurry from what I can see. It just appears that the exposure is the problem. I have created a different one at Doberman with better exposure which is exposed better. The one on the article at the moment is a lot more blurred than this one, and has less depth of field contrast than the new one. However, both are not that good and a better one would be great. (I hope to find the battery charger for my camera sometime soon, so will take one as soon as possible).-Localzuk(talk) 18:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wait,wait and wait some more. who are you telling me to stop talking about dogs when you yak about them all day? and I saw your watchlist and how many articles are on them about dogs and you can't tell me you don't talk about them once and a while? Isn't that what the disscusion page made for? Disscusion?!?--Calvinsupergenius 20:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I posted this photo. It is one that I took. I release all rights. I cannot, however, figure out how to do so by changing the information on the picture.
I am compiling a list of Kennel Clubs, may be 50 or so, I would like to start a brief article for the one's that have not already been started to get them into the encyclopedia. Once in people tend to add on to them. Do you have a suggestion for a generic I can copy and paste for each kennel so that they will be long enough to not be deleted, etc. For example:
NAME Kennel Club is an organization dedicated to supporting dogbreeds and their owners.
Sorry, I thought that it was you that removed that notice. I thought that you and others were ganging up on me, and I do not know who this annanomous user is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvinsupergenius (talk • contribs)
you need to stop posting garbage about me being that annanomous 205.202.240.104. I was going to link after link when I clicked on his name! --Calvinsupergenius 19:55, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Going to bed now. I know some of the Kennels do not belong to FCI, but I am considering changing the name, to just List of kennel clubs, what do you think? The ==See Also== links on non FCI members is okay, it is an of interest link to anyone going to those Kennel Clubs, it does not mean they are a member of the FCI. I am open for input. Moving this to the List of FCI kennel clubs talk page, so there is a record of the conversation. Cordially SirIsaacBrock 03:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are invited to participate in the consensus vote on Kennel Club naming policy. Click here to participate.--Esprit15d 21:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Elf,
You asked in the discussion page which GFDL photo was preferred for the info breed box and it would be preferable if the GFDL plush coated Shiloh be used (rather than the smooth-coated) as this coat is more "typical" if you will. I know you said the current photo in the breed box is "copyrighted" and, per Wiki, can't be used, so you are welcome to use the plush-coated Shiloh photo, which is GFDL and is currently located down in the history section. Thank you. MilesD. 07:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Again,
On the article page, where you put in the Smooth-Coat dog in the "Coats" section, the last few characters of the section writing (7.5 cm long.) has drifted under the photo and looks a little funny. Would it be possible for you to fix this?
Also, would it be possible to make both photos in the body of the article (both the smooth coat in "Coats" and the dark plush coat dog in "History")just a little larger to fill out the "white space" surrounding them? I just think this would visually look a little nicer for the article. Please tell me if you think I'm crazy and thanks for helping with this. MilesD. 20:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OrphanBot keeps tagging my user page with a message about an unlicensed image. The problem is that it was an image uploaded by someone else that got overwritten by yet some other person, so I reuploaded it for them so it wouldn't be completely lost. I have already tagged the image and notified the user, and I don't want to have to keep removing the message from OrphanBot from my user talk page. Is there any way to get it to stop? Elf | Talk 00:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Two options: First, I could add you to the list of people never to notify. This means that if you upload an image and forget to indicate the source or copyright, you won't be notified. Second, you could leave a link to the image somewhere on your talk page until the image is dealt with. OrphanBot checks for a link to the image when trying to figure out if someone's been notified or not, so by removing the notification, it no longer knows that you've been notified. --Carnildo 03:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I added this entry after some discussion on the Irish Setter dicussion page. All of the works in the title should be capitalized, but they are not. Is there a way to edit the title of the article or do I have to start fresh. Thanks.
--Counsel 18:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I got it taken care of. Sorry for the trouble.
--Counsel 19:26, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the FDSB is more accuratly classified as a kennel club. The definition of a kennel club is "A kennel club (known as a kennel council or canine council in some countries) is an organization for canine affairs that concerns itself with the welfare, promotion, and maintenance of more than one breed of dog." The FDSB meets all of the requirements of the definition although it stuck with a traditional name. At the time it was formed the term kennel club was not so widely used.
Herpesvirus should be one word, like parvovirus or coronavirus. I don't know why. Thanks for the info on the redirect, as it also showed that "dilatation" was misspelled as "dilitation", which I will fix. I'm actually running through all the dog breeds right now fixing any broken links to diseases. --Joelmills 03:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In many articles the thumb has a 'white background' I have not found out why in some of the dog articles that "white border" sticks out as well. Here's an example [10] and here the same page moved to a Captioned Template: [11]. ~ Cheers —This user has left wikipedia 18:29 2006-02-04
Thanks for the input (and the edits). The articles are in my own words - I tend to write it out longhand beforehand using any texts I have, so I can type it in quickly. Things like affected breed lists are taken straight from the reference, though. It does bring up a question though, which I should already know the answer to but I haven't written a term paper in 12 years. Is it improper to paraphrase sections of a text? For instance, in the follicular dysplasia article I mention the characteristics of structural follicular dysplasia. This is not taken word for word from the reference, but it certainly contains all the pertinent info mentioned in the reference. Organization and language is all mine.
One other thing. I noticed you altered the reference structure using a template. Is that important to do? The difference seems to be minimal.
Template version:
Griffin, Craig E. (2001). Small Animal Dermatology (6th ed. ed.). W.B. Saunders Company. ISBN0-7216-7618-9. {{cite book}}: |edition= has extra text (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
My version:
Griffin, Craig E.; Miller, William H.; Scott, Danny W.(2001). Small Animal Dermatology (6th ed.). W.B. Saunders Company. ISBN0-7216-7618-9
Whoops, I do see I missed a semicolon. I'll fix that in the other articles containing that reference. Thanks for your time. --Joelmills 05:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This editor is now banned but he left a trail of poorly edited articles in his wake, such as the Cordoba Fighting Dog. I am retracing some of his edits and correcting them as I go. Most of what he has added is incorrect, so simply requires removal. Cordially SirIsaacBrock 04:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nowhere in the cats is there one that lists all the articles on specific animals. That is, all the articles on what a kid would consider an animal. If someone wanted to see all the articles on all the animals likely encountered at the zoo, what cat covers that?
I'll create another one for this: Animal names. --Go for it! 23:24, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for alerting me to the fact that my style was off on the Coton de Tulear article. I've gone back to the article and did a quick tidy up. I'll be more careful next time. I'm a newbie so this was very helpful.
Pharaoh Hound 21:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Do we happen to have a category dog artist? Sorry, can't remember how to write that so that it doesn't come out as an actual category (and I just realized that that probably makes no sense whatsoever to anyone other than my tired self.
At any rate, I've just written stub John Emms (artist) and I'll probably do Maud Earl and whatshisname Osborne and Wardle if they're not done already because I've been researching dog paintings--which I've always loved--for a book so this is my latest interest/obsession.
Do you have any idea of what I'm talking about, or do I just need to go take a nap?
Thanks for the work on Hokkaido (dog). Someone had removed your red link to the article from Hokkaido, and I thought, why not partially translate the Japanese article. But I didn't know enough to be confident about terminology, the template, layout, headings etc. so thanks for revamping it! Now the English Wikipedia has an article about it for the first time in a couple of years (a previous article was deleted in 2003). Fg2 20:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
and File:Dolly1.JPG, are okay to use. They are surely the work of (user) Neil Trilokekar in Canada, who happens to be a huge resource on Indian greyhounds. I believe both dogs are his. I made changes to the copyright tags and source information on both pictures. If you need to contact me, please leave message at no:Brukerdiskusjon:Tbjornstad
