User talk:JWilz12345/Archive 1
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Hello
[edit]An article you created, List of reportedly haunted locations in Bangladesh, is being discussed at the fringe theory noticeboard. The issue is that it looks a little too much like a paranormal travel guide than an article, and the draft that you are working on as an improvement to this article shares the same problem. If you have any suggestions for how we can improve this article, and make it more compliant with WP:FRINGE, please make some at the noticeboard. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 17:19, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
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Reply regarding PHL hwys
[edit]To TagaSanPedroAko and RioHondo: To be honest I cannot edit any road/hwy/expwy articles here on English Wikipedia, as I am blocked from editing here (since I use FreeBasics, as such, open proxy). I apologize, I cannot contribute here on enwiki for at least 3 years (that is, until March 2019), if it won't be extended. Following enwiki's blocking policy on open proxies, I cannot edit ALL of pages of enwiki except here—my talkpage. I now edit more frequently on Tagalog Wikipedia, especially to the PHL road articles that I created there based on articles here on enwiki, cos the block doesn't extend there to some degree. One of those articles I created there was tl:Sistema ng lansangang bayan sa Pilipinas—the tlwiki equivalent of both Philippine highway network and Philippine expressway network.
I use FreeBasics because I usually have little or no load/credit on my SIM card. I use mobile data for browsing on Internet (esp. Wikipedia). And furthermore, I have no regular access to network provider's promos and/or cannot reload with high denominations because I belong to the lower class. Because of FreeBasics, I can contribute to Wikipedia even without load. You may notice that I haven't edited on enwiki regularly since late March 2017 (except on very few occasions, when I "got lucky", that is, got access to short-lived, less-than-a-day promos of my network provider). Since then my sparse activity here (when I got a chance to register a less-than-a-day and short-lived promo) are minor corrections (as I did at Samsung Galaxy Star) and adding human-reviewed flags to several files (usu. about roads and/or typefaces) for transfer to Commons. Due to this, I greatly reduced the content on my userpage, and have my sandbox and personal draftspaces deleted via request (and I plan to add a request template to delete my entire userpage altogether, as I have not seen any sign of lifting this blockage in the near future).
Despite this, that doesn't stop my ability to spread my ample knowledge to the readers, and to that cause, I went on editing articles on tlwiki, where I can still edit to some degree. And despite my use of FreeBasics, I am a legitimate user; I was only affected collaterally. And I am no sockpuppet. To be honest, I condemn all sorts of sockpuppetry!
Again, I apologize for my inability to help in all PHL road/hwy/expwy articles on enwiki. I hope you'll understand my current situation. Thanks. JWilz12345 (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Moving to commons img files that I myself tagged as {{copy to commons|human=JWilz12345}}
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Can I move to Wikimedia Commons some of the enwiki images that I myself tagged as {{copy to commons|human=JWilz12345}}? I have noticed that there is a serious backlog in Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons reviewed by a human, with little or no reduction of files there. I'm planning to move to commons some of the files that I have added the template mentioned above. Thanks for answer to my question!
JWilz12345 (talk) 12:44, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
- Hey JWilz12345! Tagging {{copy to commons|human=JWilz12345}} pretty much says that you would move the file to Commons, but either haven't done so yet or would like someone else to do it. It's a perpetually-backlogged process, so any help is appreciated. I like to use WP:MTC! to move the files, as it tends to work better than toollabs:commonshelper. If you've got any questions, feel free to let me know! --AntiCompositeNumber (Ring me) 14:52, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
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To some other editor/admin: can I request the undeletion of the aforementioned File:EDSA.jpg (which was deleted on 24 November 2016)? After analyzing this now-deleted img (analyzed via a screenshot of the file's page that I captured last year and the contribs of its uploader), I am now confident and definite that its author is Docrx, and it belongs to him (using his upload log and contributions list). I admit that I made a mistake of forgetting to put {{Information |description…}} on the file. I may need some additional assistance/advice over this, though. Thanks! JWilz12345 (talk) 13:33, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
- Hi JWilz12345, I'm Waggers. The file was deleted by User:Explicit who is quite busy at the moment so might not be able to respond to a query very quickly. Instead, though, the best place to ask for the file to be restored is WP:REFUND. Although restoring the file is something I can do, the administrators that regularly patrol that noticeboard are probably better placed than me to decide on whether it would be appropriate to do so.
- Hope that helps, WaggersTALK 21:38, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
- To Waggers: Can I post my undeletion request to Explicit's talkpage directly?JWilz12345 (talk) 10:46, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
FOP PHL
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I need further clarification about the FOP for certain landmarks in my country (this discussion may need multiple commenters, e.g. User:RioHondo, User:P199, User:TagaSanPedroAko). The FOP page at Commons says:
" Not OK Chapter VIII ("Limitations on copyright) of part IV ("The law on copyright") of AN ACT PRESCRIBING THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY CODE AND ESTABLISHING THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OFFICE, PROVIDING FOR ITS POWERS AND FUNCTIONS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES (chapter found on pp. 84-90) does not appear to make any exception for photographs of copyrighted works. Bizarrely, the law itself is entirely based on the law of the United States and contains identical fair use provisions, which however are not acceptable.
ijon met with the Director of the Intellectual Property Office of the Philippines in November 2011, and asked about FoP. The Director said "The law is silent on the matter", and said they are waiting for case law to settle the question one way or another. The matter has not reached the supreme court yet."
But there are some instances that it doesn't apply, especially in older buildings/landmarks, some modern landmarks, etc.. To name some:
- File:Smmarilaojf.JPG ([1]) Transcript from Commons:User:King_of_Hearts: "Keep per COM:TOO. I can hardly see what is copyrightable about this building"
- The case of Rizal Monument in [2]: its designers Carlo Nicoli and Richard Kissling are deceased since late 1910s 1920+50=1970.
Based on Rizal Monument case, San_Agustin_Church_(Manila) is FOP in my assumption (I have already transferred File:Ph-mm-manila-intramuros-san agustin church (2014).JPG to commons). Based on that article it was founded in 1720 and has withstood many earthquakes in the past; it is the "sole survivor of the seven churches of Intramuros to survive the leveling by combined American and Filipino ground forces in May 1945" (therefore not rebuilt). It only undergone a cosmetic renovation in 2013, which for me is not a strong justification for No FOP PHL.
However, I'm not sure over the following landmarks (some info based on their enwiki articles):
- Manila Cathedral (since 1571 current structure from 1958)
- Quiapo Church (current structure from 1933)
- Binondo Church (since 1852, current structure from 1950s)
- and some other noteworthy PHL churches
- SM Mall of Asia, SM North EDSA, and SM Megamall (This is the reason why I did not tag File:SM North Facade.jpg, despite the fact that I had put {{Information}} field, to be safe.)
- Jones Bridge, MacArthur Bridge (Manila), and Quezon Bridge
I need further advice and assistance over this matter. Thanks! JWilz12345 (talk) 03:35, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
- This question is rather specific for a general editing help request; few of the helpers will be familiar with the intricacies of Philippine copyright law. You may want to ask for more specific advice at WP:Copyright questions or possibly WT:WikiProject Philippines. My understanding is that for Wikipedia's purposes, the Philippines are considered not to have freedom of panorama, making regular copyright rules apply - which in the case of the Philippines seems to mean 50 years after the death of the creator of a work. The architects of structures built in the 1950s are likely to not have died by 1967; so unless you have evidence to the contrary for a specific building, you should assume they are still protected by copyright. On the other hand there's the issue of the threshold of originality; if a photo shows "just a wall", there's little to be copyrighted since walls aren't the invention of the specific architect who designed the building to which the wall belongs. This is getting more difficult when photos show more elaborate parts of a building, though, and I'd generally try to err on the side of caution. Huon (talk) 14:03, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Delete
[edit]@Waggers Good morning! Please delete my subpage User:JWilz12345/Today's pictures archive, as I now consider it excess subpage. I have decided that previous pictures of "Today's picture" in my userpage can be repeated in the future. Thanks! JWilz12345 (talk) 02:22, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
- Done. In future you might get a quicker response by adding the speedy deletion template {{db-userreq}} to the page itself. WaggersTALK 09:52, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
- Re: @Waggers, I cannot do this at the moment, as my IP - exempt status has been expired since Aug. 27, so I'm totally depemdent on my talkpage (I'm using free data, concurrent to my situation here in this part of the Philippines). BTW, thanks for deleting the aforementioned page. :)JWilz12345 (talk) 10:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
- I see. No worries, I'm happy to help. WaggersTALK 18:33, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Waggers: I also cannot edit at Wikimedia Commons due to the autoblock, despite the fact that I wanted to help categorize and/or clean up some of the files there. only did a few instances I could edit there when I'm on a trip (via WiFi hotspot), which is on rare occassions only. BTW, thanks again Waggers! :)JWilz12345 (talk) 01:12, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Autoblock
[edit]@Waggers: Like I said earlier (above), I'm using the open FreeBasics in browsing Internet, including my fav website Wikipedia. Since the launch of autoblocks, I wasn't able to edit or contribute here on enwiki. I have read Wikipedia:Appealing a block and Wikipedia:Autoblock. Although I wished to request for a long-term unblock, I am hesitant because of the fear that my request would be denied, as I have noticed in more than 60-80% of unblocking requests involving collateral autoblocks. I admit that I have made some minor wrongful edits/contribs here, although I'm ready to change. I'm planning to remove {{copy to commons|human=JWilz12345}} from two of the files I tagged before and add {{ffd}} template, after discovering a while ago that these are possible screenshots of skyline of Bolivia's admin cap. city, if my request is granted (I hope so). Can you give me further help or assistance regarding this? Thanks!JWilz12345 (talk) 05:06, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- I would strongly suggest following the procedure at {{Autoblock}}. I can see from your contributions that you've edited File:Skyline La Paz at night.png since making the request above, which would suggest you're not autoblocked. WaggersTALK 13:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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Possible unauthorized use of my account
[edit]This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
To other editors: Recently I noticed that I got many notifications. I thought that i had these notifications here or in Tagalog Wikipedia, Commons, Wikidata, Chinese Wikipedia, Simple English Wikipedia, Old English Wikipedia, and Latin Wikipedia, but I haven't received any. When I looked at my Global account information, I found out that I had been attached to many global wikis, most of them I didn't visited with personally. I suspect that someone used my account without my knowledge. I need an advice on this. Thanks.JWilz12345 (talk) 12:43, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- I can only give you a partial reply that may allay your fears: Looking at your edit history, no edits have been made from your account that reflect unauthorised use or editing. It's always a very good idea to immediately change your password if you have concerns, and never leave a computer logged in where someone else can use it. Normally, you receive a notification from a foreign language wiki the first time you visit it. Over the course of a full 24 hours your account appears to have visited 100 different wikis - linking you to 170+ in total. If it wasn't you visiting these pages, perhaps to look up translations of words or topics, I have no explanation, other than to wonder whether there might have been a system-wide update or glitch which automated that process and sent you all those notificatoins at irregular intervals over 24 hours. However, my own account is attached to far fewer, so I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer. I won't mark this query as 'helped' lest someone with better systems knowledge can provide a fuller answer. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 13:22, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Nick Moyes: Thanks for your advice. Although I still need more answers or helps, like what you said. However, like earlier, thanks for your answer.JWilz12345 (talk) 13:35, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- Addition: I had only made significant contributions in the ff. languages of Wikipedia: English, Mandarin Chinese, Tagalog, and Simple English, and to some extent, Old English, Latin, French, Spanish, and Cebuano (mostly in adding images in geographical articles, but I did not contribute any major texts). In other languages, I only visited those major languages: Japanese, Malay, Indonesian, German, Thai, Russian, Arabic and several others for translation purposes, as my focus on Wikipedia is about geography and Philippines roads. But I never ever visited Wikipedias of Tibetan, Kazakh, and other "lesser" languages (which made me to think that someone used my account illegally). For other projects, I only contributed in Commons, Wkidata, Incubator (for the proposed Filipino Wikipedia), Meta, Wikivoyage (English only ) and Wiktionary (English and Tagalog only). I never ever visited Russian and Vietnamese Wikivoyages, despite these suspiciously appearing on my Global Account Info. I never visited Wikibooks and Wikiquote, although on one occassion I did visit English Wikispecies (in my curiousity, but only once). But to repeat, I never ever visited any editions of Wikibooks and Wikiquote).JWilz12345 (talk) 13:45, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
- Hey JWilz12345, I've had a bit of a dig and it appears that a script ("cleanupUsersWithNoId.php") was run by the WMF operations folk which appears to have SUL linked to all these other wikis. I don't really understand why it linked you in places you've not visited, but at least its not a compromise! -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 14:03, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Help needed: Southeast Metro Manila Expressway
[edit]I have created an article for it, but is is far more stubbish. There are still no detail about its background and construction history, and a list of proposed interchanges. Can you help with it? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
- @TagaSanPedroAko: I cannot help greatly at this moment, as I am usually busy at my real life activities. Although I added some info in the article, using news from CNN Philippines as the basis. Should this help? And I am planning to make an article of this expressway in Tagalog Wikipedia, based on this article. I would attribute you (TagaSanPedroAko) as the original article contributor, to comply with Wikipedia's attribution policy in creating articles in other languages based on articles here. JWilz12345 (talk) 10:21, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Break in conversation (intended for recording/archival of my activity log)
[edit]- Now opting out of DPL Bot... JWilz12345 (talk) 07:45, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
{{Now Commons}}
[edit]Hello!
Please use {{subst:Ncd}} when you tag files so the date comes automatically.Jonteemil (talk) 23:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Jonteemil: noted! :-) JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 03:00, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Leaning towards "Can't retire"
[edit]@P199, Emperork, Hwilims, Koressha, and HueMan1: (as of June 1, 2020) -- despite my "firm decision" to semi retire, I still felt that I want to edit in mainspace (at least minor edits). 😔 This is evidenced by my recent contributions, mostly minor edits, excluding those involving file moving operations (File Ex/Importer) and related issues on files. I don't know if I may put {{Can't retire}} (but with added notes {{User frustrated}} and {{discouraged}}).
If y'all are wondering why I made some related edits in fixing "ABS-CBN" links, this is because of my support for the requested move at Talk:ABS-CBN (TV network) since ABS-CBN, when it comes into Filipinos' minds (myself included) refers exclusively to the network and not the company. But I'm afraid that when I participate there, I might be bombarded with hurtful remarks like "talker," "admin wannabe," "childish" (yes I'm immature, but because of my past personal experiences!), and others. I might also be struck with statements similar to this: "Wait, you said you're semiretiring. Then how come are you participating such discussions?!...." I admit, I'm weak 😞 JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 05:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
- Imho you're doing great, and that you had no bad intent here at Wikipedia! Please do not mind them; despite being quite a newbie (I'm celebrating my Wikimonthsary sometime!) I noticed that some of those users you had come across may have failed to assume good faith on your actions. Some may refute you just because they want to push their opinion and stress that as right.
But here am I, @Hiwilms: and the other users you pinged. That's no problem, because Wikipedia has far more editors who will accept you (like the aforementioned ping gang) than who will hate you.
If you don't mind, you can support this WikiProject proposal and I am pretty sure we'll do a great collab!
Cheers. {{ping|Koressha}} {interact|ambags} 12:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
@Koressha: Thanks for invitation, but I'm afraid I'm more of a roadfan than a "railgeek." And I don't want to get involved into discussions similar to Talk:Manila Metro Rail Transit System Line 3, and a related discussion at Tambayan which prompted the said remark. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 00:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- 1) Roads and rails are vital in efficient transport, and there is no problem on appreciating the asphalt ways! For example we can construct BRTs to complement our railways :> 2) Hiwilms did not start the WikiProject just because he disliked the long-winding discussions hither and thither; it was our plan from off-wiki and is based from an older, thwarted WikiProject by an off-wiki railfan group due to "unforeseen matters". Discussions like that inside the proposed WikiProject will be more of a forum-type instead of continuous debate. With that said, we will also try our best to ensure healthy discussions and instigate user encouragement. :3 See you there, @JWilz12345:! {{ping|Koressha}} {interact|ambags} 13:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Koressha: right now I'm focusing on tlwiki. Just recently expanded tl:Kalayaan ng panorama, the tlwiki equivalent of Freedom of panorama by translating large part of the enwiki article relevant to our fellow Filipinos, but with an added section not present on enwiki edition. About railways I might think of that. Nevertheless, I'm requesting for your participation (kahit na kaunti lang po) on a move discussion on tlwiki at tl:Usapan:Estasyon_ng_Carriedo_ng_LRT, regarding the article names of LRT-1 stations. Because there are some things to consider before outright moving of pages through article title renaming. Thanks! JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 07:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- @JWilz: sorry I was not able to reply yesterday... anyway, great, will check it out! I also hope you better days ahead. {{ping|Koressha}} {interact|ambags} 02:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- Looks like the ping did not work...@JWilz12345: {{ping|Koressha}} {interact|ambags} 02:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Your RM
[edit]I have closed the RM here as moved, I have performed a round robin swap to avoid lose of page history, I hope it went as intended. Cheers Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 12:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you @Synoman Barris:. Stay safe and healthy always in the midst of this pandemic JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC
Need help on the article
[edit]Hello, I need to help with the N232 highway (Philippines) article to add more than one source. I tried to did the best to create articles on Philippine roads, but needs more contributions onto it. Thanks! Dingo1234555 (talk) 20:26, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hi @Dingo1234555:. Sorry if I replied very late. I cannot help with Philippine highway articles right now, even those on Tagalog Wikipedia, as I am dealing and monitoring the individual pending deletion requests at Commons:Category:Philippine FOP cases/pending. With over 300 case pages, involving an estimated 400-600 image files (perhaps even more) — photos of Philippine buildings, sculptures, and murals (from ABS-CBN HQ and GMA HQ to the Bonifacio Shrine and the Mt. Samat Shrine, to Angry Christ Mural of Victorias City) — with the lack of a freedom of panorama in the country as the principal reason. An update is that the Intellectual Property Office of the Philippines (IPOPHL) is now considering the addition of freedom of panorama as one of the possible amendments in the ongoing review for the update of the Republic Act No. 8293, our copyright law. Hope you can understand me, and if you wish you may participate or provide inputs at Commons:Commons talk:Copyright rules by territory/Philippines#New discussion on PHL FoP. Stay healthy safe and strong fellow Wikipedian. :-) JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
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[edit]Orphaned non-free image File:Bonifacio shrine lemuelsalibio.jpg
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Regarding User:Mariusmiti
[edit]I saw this note but I am responding on your talk page so the FFD can remain focused on the nominated image. I had a look through of the remaining images uploaded and given the variety of EXIF and varying resolutions amongst other things, I suspect that these other images are also are problematic. -- Whpq (talk) 21:14, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Whpq: I already sent them for deletion request at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 July 17#File:BRD Tower Timisoara.jpg. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 01:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing this. I was going to nominate them. -- Whpq (talk) 13:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you + a question
[edit]I have seen you appear in filespace and on commons DR a few times, and I admire all of the work you do around FOP and file copyright in general. The work you do is fantastic and appreciated! :) I do have a question though, and I hope you don't mind answering as I figured you're fairly knowledgeable on file copyright.
I'm unfamiliar with logo licensing out of US/UK TOO. Do you know how Philippine government agencies handle logos/seals in regards to PD-Gov and TOO? Are they copyrighted, or can I license them under PD-Gov? If this is a c:COM:VPC thing I'll gladly take it there, but I figured since all the files in concern are on Enwiki I would try here first. Sennecaster (What now?) 19:18, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Sennecaster: hello. Sorry I'm not knowledgeable about TOO in most jurisdictions. Here in the Philippines there is no TOO concept, as people tend to equate copyright with trademark concept in relation to corporate logos, despite that copyright and trademark are two different things in intellectual property. For this reason, Commons chose to apply US TOO since the copyright law of the Philippines is based and is heavily influenced from it (except architectural FOP sadly). In terms of local government logos, the consensus in Commons is to accept them as c:Template:PD-PhilippinesGov, but enwiki continues to take on restrictive point of view for government works, in which government works are not copyrighted but still requires prior permission from the relevant government agency or instrumentality. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 02:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for elaborating! I'll be transferring the files in question (Category:PD-Philippines images with unknown US copyright status) soon. :) Sennecaster (What now?) 02:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
Translation for N8 highway (Philippines) for Tagalog Wikipedia
[edit]Can you please translate the N8 article to tagalog for tl.wikipedia.org? I would appreciate it if you do.Boii 04:36, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- @BoholMappingAndRoutes: hello. Unfortunately I am no longer active on tlwiki as I am mostly focused on Wikimedia Commons (and monitoring the status of freedom of panorama, which we currently don't have). Plus conflict of college assignments. I am entrusting other users to do translation works, perhaps you or @HueMan1:. Thank you for your contributions. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 07:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi JWilz12345, I was wondering if fair use rationale would be unnecessary for this image of the Mother of All Asia – Tower of Peace "statue". Either case I believe this can't be hosted in Wikicommons due to a lack of explicit freedom of panorama law in the Philippines. Under US FOP law, the "statue" could qualify as a "humanely habitable structure" since the monument itself, not just the "pedestal" portion has occupiable floors. The problem is I'm not sure if the "sculptural depiction of the Virgin Mary" disqualifies the subject as a "building" under US FOP. So I reuploaded the image from Commons under fair use for now.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 13:54, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Hariboneagle927: I think it's best to err on the side of caution, and treat it as a sculpture. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 14:39, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
E1 Route Marker
[edit]As you have gone to the NLEX, to they have route markers for E1/AH26?BMAR (talk) 02:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
- @BoholMappingAndRoutes I rarely look for markers whenever I pass through NLEX. Sorry if I cannot answer your question this time. Regards, JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 02:51, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Concern regarding Draft:Broadway Avenue, Quezon City
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Request
[edit]Making my request here since the IP address that I am using, provided by my provider Converge ICT, has been blocked, with the block being unreasonable to me IMO.
May I request any user to update the official website link of Hangad found at both Hangad#External links and Jesuit Music Ministry#External links, from "https://www.hangad.com" to "https://www.hangad.org/". Thanks. _ JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 06:01, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- I did this edit request on the two pages regarding Hangad's current website. Inarawan1979 (talk) 06:11, 17 August 2023 (UTC)